Re: A Sad Story....But getting better I feel so sorry for you both. You, because you and your family have poured so much time, affection and training into Shandy. Him, because there is probably something (or somebody) in his past that has made him so unpredictable. I totally understand your reluctance to put a muzzle on him, but I think it is,sadly, probably necessary for the time being. Hopefully, the behaviorist will be able to help you. You and your family have stuck with Shady through very hard times, while other people seem to give up at the first hurdle. You DESERVE success. You really do have my admiration and respect and as ever I am rooting for you all.
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better There have been so many changes in attitude towards dogs in just my own relatively short lifetime. Many of those changes very positive ones for dogs. And for people too. There is one change that I don’t think is always for the better, and that is a growing reluctance to euthanase dogs with severe behavioural problems. People generally are very wary of recommending anyone ‘give up’ on a dog and it seems there is an element of political correctness here. You can see which way this sad post is going. I confess I have turned away from this thread over the past few months perhaps for fear of being judged if I gave an honest opinion. And I now feel that that was wrong. So I am going to set the record straight and say what I think. Firstly I want to commiserate with you as an owner, having done a really kind thing and adopted a dog with problems. I have some personal experience of a much loved and aggressive dog, so I really do understand how you feel. When you love a dog very much, it is hard to be objective about these things. And I am so sorry for you, finding yourself in this awful situation. But my personal view is, that you are now playing with fire. And putting innocent people at risk In your first post, last September you stated that your dog had already bitten your wife six times, and that the last bite needed medical attention. Then in December he bit your son and put him in hospital. Your son needed surgery on his hand. Yet your son and wife continue to share their home with this dog. The dog has now attacked a total stranger, a terrifying experience for the cyclist which could have long term repercussions on his ability to enjoy his leisure time. I am not surprised you are desperate. Even if Shandy can be rehabilitated, which now seems doubtful, I don’t believe this is a dog that can be allowed to run free in public, even if muzzled, as simply being jumped on by a large angry dog is sufficient to terrify and possibly injure most small children, and plenty of adults too. Nor should this dog, with a history of biting, be living in a house where there are children. Nor should he have access to visitors to your home or garden. This is my personal view of course. I have not met the dog, simply read some of your reports, and you should always listen carefully to what your vet (and any qualified behaviourists with first hand experience of the dog), have to say before making any decisions. I think you have tried very hard, and done all the right things to help your dog, including working with a behaviourist for some time now. I also think that for whatever reasons, you are not able to ensure that other people are safe from this dog, either within or without your family. I regret not speaking up about this earlier, but I am going to stick my neck out here and now, and say with huge sympathy, regret and understanding, that you have probably reached the end of the road and should be seriously considering having Shandy put to sleep.
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better A hard post to write, I'm sure Pippa, but I sadly think you may be right. With the information that's been reported here, I can't see much hope for the future, but can certainly see the potential for something very, very bad to happen. It's so sad
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better So very very sorry to hear of Shandy's relapse. Having just read Pippa's post I have to sadly agree with her :'(
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better I really sympathise. It really is a sad and difficult situation you are in. But first and foremost you need to think of your safety, that of your family, and of other people outside your immediate family. I'm sorry for you, and for Shandy, as this situation is not his fault - and not yours either. But you have a responsibility to others around you as well as to your dog.
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better I am so sorry to read the latest news John . I have rescued dogs, one of my current dogs is a rescue so I know how hard the battle can be , especially when they have not had a good start in life . I really do think that you are now at the end of the road with Shandy , as other have said, you simply have to consider the safety of your family and others who come into contact with him . I also believe that dogs who display this level of indiscriminate aggression must be terribly unhappy , and sometimes , past experiences are so profound that they cannot be righted , no matter how hard we try . Again, I am very sorry indeed
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better So, so sorry to read this sad thread. Put the people in your life first, not the dog is all I would say.
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better I think you have a very difficult decision to make over a dog you love very much,but you've had some very direct ,sound advice and you will be supported if you heed it ,don't feel alone x
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better I am so hoping you make the right choice for your family here x
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better Hello all,and thanks for your advice and sympathies. We do love Shandy so much and are trying so hard to show him a better life for his remaining years. I do understand the folk that suggest he be put down. You are all right when it comes to the safety of people in the public space. But when he shows the trust and affection he does have, I find it impossible to betray him or evan consider putting him down. He is only half way through his life which in the past was not good through no fault of his own. My wife and I have discussed this at great length and we both get very upset at the thought of putting him down. Some may say we are being selfish and not showing due regard to others but I can assure its not the case at all. We both feel that perhaps the reality of it all is that he will in furture have to be walked with a muzzle on and on leash. I had so hoped that we could have reached a stage where this would not have happened but the reality is we do have a duty to others as well. I also feel that many people regard a dogs life as simply of less importance/value to a human. You see,I dont. After all, I dont see people advocating the death sentance for a human assaulting another human but its OK for a animal, in this case a dog who is the way he is because of the way he was treated by humans. Anyway, my wife and I are still discussing the matter and have not finally made up our minds as what to do. Thanks to everyone for the advice and support........bless you all...John
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better Pet ownership brings many joys but also it's fair share of heartbreak when we have to consider the possibility of having to put a dearly beloved pet to sleep, for whatever reason. A fellow dog walker has just had to make the terrible decision of having her year old mastiff put to sleep. Digo was a much loved pup that she bred herself and he was born in her bedroom and was raised with his mum, another male mastiff and a deaf boxer, and her baby son who was born of Digo. He had never been maltreated and only received positive training methods. I've had numerous walks with Digo and his other dogs and just with Digo to improve his confidence outside of his family unit, all with no problems until recently. Digo started attacking the other male which resulted in real fights which my friend had to try and break up. He growled at her and her baby. Keeping the dogs separate in the house did not solve the problem as Digo tried to get through doors to get to his companion. Due to her young baby my friend decided she could not keep Digo in the house so he went for a visit to our dog trainer to see how he was away from the other male and for some assessment. Needless to say his behaviour with her and her dogs, all of them well known to him, was no better. Rehoming was considered but my friend decided after much soul searching that she could not put him up for adoption when he could attack another dog, person or child with out provocation. Her vet performed a post-mortem as he was so young at which time they discovered abnormalities in his brain. Did the abnormalities cause the change in behaviour, probably. Would training have changed his new found aggression, who can say for certain but one thing is certain Digo could have attacked and caused serious harm. My friend is still recovering from the heartache of having to make this terrible decision, but she does not regret the decision she made. :'(
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better Best wishes to you, John. Do try to get some professional support in helping you live with Shandy, and keeping everyone safe.
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better I'm glad you and your wife are considering all options. Good luck in whatever decision you make x
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better John You and your family are shouldering an awful burden. I have absolutely no doubt that you are the best people to do so. I know you will continue to work with him to help him over come his problems. I also know that you will take every step to protect the general public from him. I think poor Shandy must have suffered terribly before he came to you and it inevitably leaves its mark. I am not being polite when I say "please keep in touch", I really do want to hear how you get on. My very best wishes and, as ever, admiration. Tina
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better I can understand how difficult this situation must be for you and your wife and you want to try all options to give shandy a happy life. I can also appreciate why the thought of putting him to sleep is an option you don't really want to face. My dogs are very nervous of strangers touching them so I have trained them to wear a muzzle. I do think you need to train shandy to wear a muzzle and walk him with one on. If shandy attacks someone again and the outcome is worse and he bites the decision of having him put to sleep maybe taken out of your hands. My dogs accepted the muzzle quite easily but I do think the fact they wear a head collar helped. I introduced it very gradually using treats. To begin with just letting them sniff it, then putting their nose in for a treat, then leaving it over their nose a bit longer until eventually I fastened it. It was probably a couple of weeks before I took them outside for a very brief walk with them on. I have the Baskerville muzzle however the Baskerville Ultra Muzzle is made of rubber and so is softer and perhaps more suitable for constant use. The dog can drink and be given treats with the muzzle on. This is a link to an article by Karen Pryor who thinks it's time people appreciated the good muzzles can do rather than see them as a negative. It also explains how to train a dog to wear a muzzle. http://www.clickertraining.com/node/3948 I do hope you train shandy to wear a muzzle and you use it. You might not like the look of it but if introduced carefully shandy won't be as bothered about it as you and it is a simple piece of equipment that could save you and others a lot of heart ache. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better Hi Jen, when Mat Ward visited our house, he was kind enough to bring out a few muzzles and ensured that the Baskerville size 5 was the correct fit. I bought one. I kept leaving small bits of cheese inside the muzzle which was lying on the floor next to his bed. After about 10 days I noticed he had no problem in sticking his snout into the muzzle for the cheese. I then started to hold the muzzle in my hand but with a piece of cheese inside the muzzle, he took it no problem. This was repeated for a few more days and now there is very little resistance when I do put the muzzle on him. Its only when he wants to roll in the grass he seems to attempt to scratch the muzzle off but stops when I tell him to. We also have a "safe sanctuary" in the house for him, his bed. We dont touch him when he is on it. At the moment he has an infection in his ears. When I took him to the vet for his 6 monthly check up I got some eardrops to put into his ears. Well, the moment he sees me with the little white bottle in my hand, he runs like hell for his bed, promptly lies down and looks at me as if he is saying " you cant touch me here!!". Eventually he falls for the old trick of a few more treats and we get the job done. Anyway, my wife and I are going to make a decision tonight. I'll let you kind folk know what we decide by Monday. Thanks to all for your support..............John
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better Best wishes to you in your decision making, I bet it's tough either way. My heart goes out to you - how difficult it must be, loving Shandy as much as you do.
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better Ah John I'm so sorry reading the posts on this thread,,this story makes me so sad.you have been wonderful giving him a chance and you've been really responsible and conscientious getting him comfortable with a muzzle,you've done the work there by the sounds of it so don't waste it,if he stays with you he is able to wear it.People can perceive muzzles negatively but don't let that sway you,if you keep Shandy you have to keep everyone safe.Ive considered a muzzle for a different reason ....there are reports of dogs being poisoned periodically where I live and I know a lady who walks her 2 labs off lead with muzzles on because they pick up and eat everything and anything.....so it's not only a dog that bites and reacts that is muzzled...it's doesn't matter anyway,if it's what you've got to do it's what you've got to do for your dog x
Re: A Sad Story....But getting better Thinking of you. More difficult times ahead, but meanwhile you are doing the very best to improve Shandy's life at the moment and, best of all, giving him a lot of time and love.
