Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! I really, really commend you and your wife for sticking with Shandy after this. You must love him very much.
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! I was also wondering if anybody can recommend any video from UTUBE. My concern is that I try and do something with Shandy that either makes him worse or affects some other sort of behaviour. Suggestions all appreciated. John
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! Morning John, I think maybe you should wait until you meet up with the rescue centre behaviourists and see what they have to say, advice and techniques will be discussed for you to put into action with Shandy. As you have said you could make matters worse or introduce new behaviours that you will also have to deal with. When you speak with them on Friday stress that this is a very difficult situation and you would really appreciate their urgent help. Maybe a trip to the vet would be a good idea just to rule out the possibility of Shandy being in pain or there could be a dental problem causing his behaviour. Hope you are all OK. xx
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! Thanks Charlie, I never gave the dental bit a thought to tell you the truth. I do take him to the vet every 6 months for a check up as a matter of course. The thing I dont understand is, if the issue was pain related, then surely he would have also had a go at my son or me by now? I have noticed that if he has a sleep after a walk and gets up, it appears he has a slight limp on his right paw or shoulder. I've checked his feet for any signs of thorns, cuts etc but there is nothing. I've also felt his shoulders and legs and there is no reaction. I do know that the limp seems to go away when I go to the kitchen and get the box off the top of the fridge that has his treats in it! Once he gets his treat he runs like hell for his cushion/bed to eat the treat. I've taught him this so he doesnt make a mess all over the place. He's a very messy eater, flicks food all over the place. Thanks again to all. John
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! [quote author=Shandyboy link=topic=7742.msg108453#msg108453 date=1410333183] I've taught him this so he doesnt make a mess all over the place. He's a very messy eater, flicks food all over the place. Thanks again to all. John [/quote] John I've said this earlier but just reading your last reply makes me want to say it again .......you really are the right family for Shandy.I think it's so wonderful you are putting the time and effort in to help him and train him.Your messages show you aren't just focussing on the challenges you are facing with him. I'm so miserable for him cowering when he reacted after the bite.....they can't tell you what happened before but in Shandy's case I'm surmising his life wasn't good.Best wishes to your wife from me,I think she is brilliant. Angela
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! A trainer once told me that dogs react differently to men, it is something to do with the timbre of their voice. I don't know how valid that is, but my dogs have always acted differently to my husband, which utterly unfair because I'm the mug who does all the training, feeding etc. They were all bitches, so I don't know if that has any impact.
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! Just wanted to add my commendations to you and your wife for showing such commitment to Shandy. Good news that the rescue are going to give you advice / help. I wonder whether the biting is connected with your wife stretching out her hand to the top of Shandy's head? Do you think it would help if your wife called Shandy to her to be petted and then offered a treat from an open hand held low down while she is crouching so not bending forward over the dog and then perhaps rubbed / stroked Shandy on the chest or under the chin? I'm thinking maybe to avoid a hand coming down from above. I stress these are only guesses on my part - but ones that I don't think could make matters worse. Wishing you the best of luck.
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! I agree with Joy. I've mentioned my dogs are nervous and they are very nervous if stangers try to touch them and bark quite aggressively. I've found the best way for a person they don't know to touch them is to avoid direct eye contact, wait for the dogs to go to them and stroke under the chin. They really don't like a hand they don't know coming down on their head. To a dog this can be seen as an aggressive move as is direct eye contact. What doesn't work with my two though is the person crouching down to their level. This is usually recommended when dealing with nervous dogs as you are at their level rather than standing over them but it also brings the person down to eye level and as my dogs don't like being looked at directly in the eye it actually makes them worse. The other thing I'd suggest is don't touch while shandy is asleep or lying down. I guess a dog is in a vulnerable position when lying down so if half asleep or startled his natural response may be to defend.
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! Maybe it was a women who tormented Shandy before you had him, so when he sees your wife's hand come down to him he reacts with fear "go away". The best thing is for your wife not to attempt to touch him and to eventually allow Shandy to approach her at his own pace. Perhaps if she dropped titbits on the floor without looking at him, he would begin to trust her.
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! Hard as it is, I think Stacia may be right. It may be best for your wife not to touch Shandy unless he comes to her first. There is some trigger that we don't understand, and until you can get to the bottom of it, it may be that you have to let him make the moves when he wants to be petted.
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and kind comments. My wife has two false knees with one of them been somewhat troublesome, so she is unable to crouch down at all. A t best she sits in her chair. What we have done is; She now feeds him in the afternoon, I do the morning feed. If he is sleeping or lying on the floor nobody touches him. If he is up, my wife will call him and only when he approaches her does she slowly put her upturned hand out to scratch him under his chin or neck area. Almost every time she calls him he will come to her, tail wagging and almost puts his head in her lap! In the mornings he likes to jump up onto the bed and snuggle up to my wife. Puzzling. Generally speaking he is very obedient with me. I can get him to get up, move, lie down,shake hands/paws. I have also taught him to sit and only take his food when told to and he is very good at this. It took some time to get him to do this but we got 90% of it right in the end. This is why I keep saying he is trainable. One trainer told me he might be brain damaged and so nothing would improve. The fact that I have achieved small things with him shows he has potential and does not deserve to be simply "handed back". I will however need guidance from people with the right experience. We were wondering as well if Shandy possibly regards himself to be higher than my wife in the pecking order and the bites are to put her in her place? Anyway thanks to all for the suggestions. Everytime I log on and read them I make notes. Really appreciated......John
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! It seems to me from what you have said that the reaction to your wife is more of an instinctive fear reaction that is triggered by specific situations. Of course, it's hard to give exact answers when we haven't seen the dog ourselves, hence the importance of getting a pair of extra eyes actually observing your dog would be the best place to start. I would agree that touching while he is lying down, and attempting to stroke him from the top of the head should both be off limits. It's a good idea to have your wife feed him, that will build up positive associations in his mind with her. Work on making every approach from your wife a positive one, so having her drop treats when she walks by him is a good suggestion. I would still recommend that you look into clicker training, as I said, it really did the trick for me in a similar situation, and you might find it helpful, too. Keep us posted on how it goes!
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! That all sounds very positive. [quote author=Shandyboy link=topic=7742.msg108598#msg108598 date=1410371694] We were wondering as well if Shandy possibly regards himself to be higher than my wife in the pecking order and the bites are to put her in her place? [/quote] No, the stuff about dominance, alphas and pack dynamics between dogs and humans isn't true. Shandy doesn't think like that at all - in terms of "his place" I mean. There is an article on this here: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/is-your-labrador-in-charge/
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! Just another thought John, you could get your wife to hand feed Shandy his daily meals rather than in a bowl, this will strengthen the bond between them as Shandy will look to your wife for his food and hopefully his trust will continue to grow as she supplies all good things . I did this with our rescue dog for some months for different reasons than yours, he did little obedience tasks for his food. This was a great idea from Heidrun and I will always be grateful for the tip Might be worth a try x
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! My wife feels a bit scared to hand feed him his afternoon meal so we have settled on her doing the usual by giving it to him in his bowl and making him sit and wait a short period before being told to have it. Tonight she has also started with the small chicken treats. She has them in a small bowl next to her on her chair. Now and again she will call him and make him sit up first before giving him a treat with praise and a short scratch. She makes sure her hand is upturned and below his head so he can easily see where it is.....not that he would'nt know where the chicken is!!! Tomorrow I'm going to take him for a swim in the nearby river. I often take him there as I think its good for him. He loves to bounce around in the bush and sniff everything at least twice. I have found two pools of water that are not stagnant but are flowing and he really enjoys them. It seems like his whole face lights up and he has a massive smile on it!! Anyway tommorrow I should get a call from the rescue organisation and I'll discuss these issues further with them. Will keep you guys posted. John
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! That sounds great Your wife could also toss treats to him if she's worried (understandably) about putting her hands near. Hope you have a lovely walk tomorrow
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! You could also run two bowls and put a little in one bowl and put it down and then a little in the other and put that down. That way there's a bowl between the dog and your wife's hand but she is still giving him more than one meal. Or give him more frequent smaller meals for a while so he associates your wife with good things. Enjoy your swim
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! It sounds like Shandy is very important to you. I really hope you get help you need x
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! I don't know if this would work for your wife....... When Molly was younger and quite snatchy about her food I trained her thus. I had a treat in my closed fist. She smelt it, nuzzled it and knew it was there. I gradually unpeeled my fingers one by one to reveal it. If she tried to take it, my fist would close and we'd start again. As my hand became flat (so obviously she would go for it) I would say take it. It wasn't long before I had my hand open, with treat exposed and she was waiting for the 'take it'. It slowed her down. She's a year old next week and I trust her to take treats from my Grandchildren (obviously under supervision). I wouldn't trust her not to knock three year old Alicia flying in her exhuberence, but I do trust her to gently take a treat from a flat little palm.
Re: A Sad Story.....so Far!!! I have nothing to offer ref advice, but I am mightily impressed with your family x
