But its one I dont want to escalate into a bigger one . Walking Sam has always been a real pleasure , yes he used to over enthusiastically meet and greet on walks but as he has matured more, the enthusiasm has lessened a lot . He began to really take interest , sniffing out squirells , rabbits and generally loving our woodland walks a lot, never straying too far from me . He has always been passionate about retrieving and just recently its become a bit of a pain , he is constantly finding things to bring to me to throw . I stopped taking his safestix or balls because he was getting fanatical, so now he finds sticks , pine cones , stones, anything he can find and if I ignore him, he nudges for me to throw . A friend suggested I turn my back on him and then carry on walking and that he would get fed up but it doesnt seem to be working and its a shame as our walks have changed completely and have now become a battle of wills , maybe I should just keep on ignoring him and the penny will drop ? It seems that he can no longer just enjoy a walk unless it involves constant retrieves , any suggestions please ?
Re: A slight problem We walk for 20 - 30 minutes, then play with the dummy for about 10 minutes, then put it back into the bum bag, and firmly say 'Game over', with a corresponding hand signal and a treat (which she spits out, because she doesnt want a treat, she wants us to THROW THE DUMMY!!!). Then we walk on determinedly, ignoring all doggy pleas for more throwing. It seems to work. Mostly...
Re: A slight problem I have four spaniels who love nothing more than to hunt and to retrieve. They don't do 'nomal walks' because if I didn't engage with them by either having them quartering, retrieving or walking to heel they would get 'self-employed' very quickly and just hunt for themselves. The problem you are having is similar, your dog wants to retrieve all day long. I would use that sort of drive and teach him more and more complicated retrieves i.e. memory retrieves, blind retrieves, retrieves over obstacles and directional control. And when you need a break from all that training just have him walking to heel for a while.
Re: A slight problem Thanks both , I have tried hard to let Sam have some quality retrieving time and then just a walk, the problem being that his drive is so high that after taking his dummy, ball off him to end the retrieve, he will then find something else to bring, usually sticks . I think I`ll just have to be more firm with him , not tell him off but ignore his constant requests, feel dreaful doing this because he is passionate about the whole thing. I suppose the positive way of looking at it is that he sticks to my side like glue, ignores other dogs and people
Re: A slight problem What do you mean when you say quality retrieving time? Is he steady to a thrown dummy? Can you walk with him at heel off the lead past a thrown dummy? All these exercises will help to teach him self control and consequently only to retrieve on command.
Re: A slight problem Yeah - except the whole point is that Kate wants a REST from retrieving... I think you can teach him that part of his walk is just that, Kate, a walk where he sniffs about and does usual doggy stuff. A different part of his work can be for retrieving (or one walk a day with retrieving, and the other without). I think having a particular toy or dummy you use and refusing to accede to sticks, cones etc will help - YOU decide when the dummy comes out and is thrown; HE doesnt get to decide when retrieving is in order by bringing you stuff! It's tough, but it's not just his walk, it's yours too, right?
Re: A slight problem Absolutely spot on Karen We usually have our long walk in the mornings, about an hour and a half and then another about 2.30 p.m. for about three quarters of an hour , so maybe I`ll try channeling his exhaustive retrieves into the afternoon one and ignore his heart rendering pleas in the mornings . Thanks for putting into words what I was struggling to say
Re: A slight problem Send him over here! He sounds great Seriously though, it is a tricky one isn't it. I'm with Heidrun in the way I exercise my dogs. All my walks involve retrieving. Lot's of it. And a dog that has this kind of retrieve drive is a real joy to train because you don't have to worry so much about boring him. However, you may find Kate, that if you dedicate a portion of at least one walk to some really intense retrieving practice, including more complicated and longer retrieves, this might satisfy his 'urges' a little, so that he gives you some peace later on Pippa
Re: A slight problem I guess I must have had spaniels for too long. They would translate 'sniffing around doing doggy stuff' as hunting 100 mph into the next county. That's why I only ever do structured walks.
Re: A slight problem Thanks again . Have just been for a bridal path walk with Sam , I took his dummy and was sending him into the rough edges to find it , did this for about 15 mins , then asked him to leave which he did and I put it away and said Gone Now . He did pester a little , then started hunting for something to bring as a substitute . I hardened my heart which is hard to do with those eyes looking at me like I am so cruel , but I did ignore him and soon after, he started sniffing about in the hedge bottoms , looking for the very last blackberries . So , for the last ten mins , I called him up, his face lit up with glee when the dummy came out for the last part of the walk . It is hard because I dont work him as such, but he is just dedicated to doing what he was bred for , just want to try and strike a happy medium where he doesnt think he can do whatever he likes all the time
Re: A slight problem I really understand Kate, because my Pops is much the same, and of course we picked 'working strain' dogs who are very eager to work and retrieve so we have to keep them busy and fulfilled. But unlike Pippa and Heidrun I dont want to have to engage constantly with my dogs on every walk; I want at least part of the time to be able to relax and allow my brain to wander... I guess that's partly why I have labradors, and not spaniels!!! Kate, you might find it expedient to restrict the 'retrieving' section of your walk to just one period. Then, once the dummy goes away, he knows it is gone for the rest of the walk - otherwise he'll be back to pestering you to get it out again... clever little soul that he obviously is!
Re: A slight problem Quite a few working bred labs are this way too. Those genes have a lot to answer for! ;D
Re: A slight problem It is so hard to harden your heart to those pleading eyes. I've lost count of the times my 'last throw/retrieve' turned into the second to last or the third from last etc etc ;D Riley is getting to be less of a pest but I don't think he had epic drive to start with, good but certainly not off the scale. If he picks up a stick or anything I let him carry it but rarely throw it. I only use his ball and dummy for retrieves. He does get bored but i realised it was only if the retrieves are too simple, anything that involves a good forage around he would do all day and if I'm really generous and let him chase stuff he thinks he's in heaven. Shortage of time for training means I've been letting him run in or chase his ball at the moment as he wasn't hard to steady up to start with, I'm just starting to bring that back in and he seems to be steadying up again nicely. I keep him guessing when he'll get to play though as it stops him looking too far afield for mischief and makes me more fun to be with as I'm less predictable which in turn has helped with his recall I think.
Re: A slight problem I must sound really rotten and mean but I`m not, honestly , I love this big lad to bits and just want to do my best for him without spending every second of a walk with the dummy . Its funny because when I spoke to Sams breeder recently , she said that some of their pups ( same parentage as Sam ) had happily become just pet dogs who showed no inclination to work whereas it seems to be working that makes my lad the happiest he can be . Oh Karen, thats a good point, didnt think of that, ok will restrict the dummy to one period , thank you .
Re: A slight problem [quote author=kateincornwall link=topic=952.msg5177#msg5177 date=1354032348] I must sound really rotten and mean but I`m not, honestly , I love this big lad to bits and just want to do my best for him without spending every second of a walk with the dummy . Its funny because when I spoke to Sams breeder recently , she said that some of their pups ( same parentage as Sam ) had happily become just pet dogs who showed no inclination to work whereas it seems to be working that makes my lad the happiest he can be . Oh Karen, thats a good point, didnt think of that, ok will restrict the dummy to one period , thank you . [/quote] But what do you expect him to do for the rest of the time? Mooch around in the undergrowth, contemplating what to retrieve next? At the moment he is happy to bring you sticks and stones. What will you do if he switches on to rabbits and pheasants? Most working bred gundogs are hard-wired to retrieve or hunt, or both, and I have never had a young dog yet where I could afford to let my brain wander for just a second when out and about with them. But, to me, that is the excitement and attraction and joy of owning gundogs.
Re: A slight problem Hi Kate I'm interested in the discussion on this thread because I'm having a similar issue with my youngest Brodick, who is a working line boy, tho his is Hunt it Down rather that Retrieve it! He's just hit ten months, has suddenly gone from scampering about sniffing flowers, carrying sticks about happily, diving into water, and rolling in fox poo to I Need To Hunt - and like heidrun's spaniels he will be off and miles away after a rabbit just now if I don't catch his attention before that Hunt Look starts....and he is the softest of cuddly, gentle boys in the house too but outside with a sniff of prey he's a changed dog! ..this has only really started in the past two weeks, got a real fright last week when he ended up on top of a very steep cliff very far away....he's now on a long line for a bit and Im starting to really focus on having structured walks with both him and Cuillin (who loves this stuff anyway) to keep them busy and 'hunting' with me, but I know what you mean its lovely to just amble along with your pups sometimes. we go to the beach where he is not so hunt focused, more water retreiving obsessed, which his his BIG passion, like your Sam's retreiving, and rolling in dead fish focused....its been quite tricky explaining to my friend who has a couple of lovely show Golden Retreivers why an amble in the hills isn't going to be so easy for me! My sister has his big sister who is about a year or so older, excatly the same - Deer driven!
Re: A slight problem Hi Kate, Ah, the work or walk condundrum. Yes, I hit that one too. My solution is that I have a big old game bag and a rucksack with the dummies in, which I take depends upon where I'm going and what else I'm carrying. The dogs have learnt that if I have the bag over my shoulder we're going to 'work' but if I just have a bumbag or stuffed pockets it's a relaxed 'walk'. I always have my whistles no matter where we're going, even if we're walking around town, I think that's my security blanket! When I used to lead guided walks the dogs even learnt the difference between my work rucksack and theirs - different colours and probably more importantly differently smells. Even though I don't do that any more they still seem to know if the clean rucksack has my stuff in it and not theirs. [quote author=heidrun link=topic=952.msg5178#msg5178 date=1354033028] But what do you expect him to do for the rest of the time? Mooch around in the undergrowth, contemplating what to retrieve next? At the moment he is happy to bring you sticks and stones. What will you do if he switches on to rabbits and pheasants? Most working bred gundogs are hard-wired to retrieve or hunt, or both, and I have never had a young dog yet where I could afford to let my brain wander for just a second when out and about with them. But, to me, that is the excitement and attraction and joy of owning gundogs. [/quote] Hello Heidrun, Yes, I expect my girls to mooch about, I also expect them to watch me and I certainly don't want them even contemplating retrieving anything without express permission. I watch them like hawks until I know them and can read their body language so that I can anticipate when they're not 'with me' any more, at that point they get stopped or called back in and if necessary made to heel up for a while. Hebe comes from working and trialling stock (way too much red in her pedigree!) and has been hard work, but finally at five she's learnt the difference between a relaxed a walk and time to 'work'. These days she's actually more relaxed on the lead than off, I figure that off the lead (even at heel) she has to keep checking on me and that she's getting it right but on the lead she knows where I am. I love my labs and that inbuilt gundog attention, it certainly keeps you on your toes! Oh but the joy when they get it right, nothing beats it.
Re: A slight problem Thank you Kerryn , thats made me feel much better As I said previously , Sam doesnt do gundog work and so I dont see why I should train him to the same level as one who goes to serious work , he is obedient, calm and well mannered around other dogs and people and to be honest , at 16 months old, I`m quite happy with the level we have reached I`m not a novice, he is my fourth Lab and I`ve also had Springers and terriers , the latter being the worst by far to train, but loved all the same . As I see it, just my feelings , as long as I satisfy his love of retrieving at times , keep him well stimulated , it cant surely be a bad thing if he has a normal ordinary walk from time to time or is it being suggested that I have to let him retrieve every time I go out with him , if so then is it also correct that if I dont do this , I am depriving him ?
Re: A slight problem Of course not Kate, Sam is a happy, much loved family pet - not a working gundog! It is your responsibility to make sure he is fulfilled and mentally challenged, or else there'll be trouble ahead (we all know there's nothing worse than a bored Labrador :), but at the same time it's important that he learn to fit into your family and lifestyle. There are plenty of ways our Labradors can be challenged and kept busy - that's why they are so popular and beloved. Dont worry too much, I'm certain you'll deal with this little issue with aplomb and grace!
Re: A slight problem Maybe my attitude is odd but no matter how much I love my dogs (and I do - sometimes too much!) they must fit in with me and not the other way around. I make sure they are happy and healthy but if they can't (or more often I can't) get out for as much as we'd like they'll just have to manage. And where ever I go, so do they, within reason - hence the different bags, I want them to walk at my side dealing with whatever we come across and that includes going through a very busy village (16+ coach-loads of tourists on a summer day), across the moors, through sheep and also I want to be able to take them into town and leave them tied up outside shops. Short lead walks to collect the paper from the village or day long hikes. This means that they can't be constantly looking for distractions or nudging me for a dummy. I've even had one invited to a dinner party! But she was exceptional and so were the hosts. Yes, it takes a lot of work when they're younger with constant life long reminders but it's worth it. Look at what you want Sam to do and then go for it. If that means he never sees a dummy again (I know that's extreme and you don't intend that at all) he'll get over it, labradors are remarkably tolerant of whatever you throw at them. Don't worry that you're 'depriving' him or not living up to other people's expectations, if he's happy and you're happy with him then you're there. So pick up that lead and head off over the hills - or maybe wait until the water recedes a little ;D
