Re: A slight problem I agree that Sam should fit in with you. He has a lovely home with you and I'm sure you will both work through this and find your equilibrium. I try hard to provide Riley with fun and stimulation but sometimes he has to put up with 30minutes walk up the lane. His tail wags just as much for that as two hours hoofing around or lovely training sessions hunting and retrieving. He's always up for more but he's a pet and we have to fit other things in our day. He does pretty well I think and so does Sam
Re: A slight problem Thanks again . Its ironic that some time ago , I posed the question on here about a working dog as a pet after someone I know had made an insensitive remark . I was reasured by Pippa and others that yes , a working bred Lab can be a pet quite happily as long as they are stimulated , this was a massive comfort to me as the person making the remark had cast doubts on whether my lovely boy was content with us . This particular thread wasnt about this issue at all , it was about striking a happy medium but somehow it evolved into the same issue as once more doubts were cast about whether working bred dogs can just do ordinary dog stuff !! Thanks so much for your very kind comments , I know that Sam is happy , will do my level best to keep it that way
Re: A slight problem Have you tried doing memory retrieves? This doesn't involve any throwing so tends to calm then down as well as exercise them. Have Sam on the lead and choose a hedge or straight path, let him see you drop the dummy, then both of you walk on in a straight line, turn him round and send him back. You can do this for longer and longer distances when he has the idea of it. You can then drop the dummy, walk on, sit Sam facing you and send him back. Drop dummy, walk on, then sit Sam facing you, but this time, call him to you and then turn him round and send him from your side. Later on you can do the same drop the dummy and walk on, but then you stand at right angles to the dummy with Sam facing you and then send him on a "get out/on" to the right, this will teach him his right and lefts. Stacia
Re: A slight problem I think that there are several issues getting mixed up here. [li]Is Sam happy as a pet?[/li] [li]Should Kate be doing more gundog style work (ie retrieving) with Sam if she doesn't want to?[/li] [li]Will bad things happen if gundogs are not allowed/encouraged to retrieve?[/li] Is Sam happy? I would be happy to bet he is! I am in no doubt that gundogs can be happy as pets. In fact many pet homes give their gundogs truly wonderful lives. Is Sam a bit frustrated by not having his retrieving instincts fulfilled? If we are honest, maybe a little bit, but most likely not to the extent that it is going to do him any harm. He still has a wonderful life. Should Kate be doing more gundog type exercises with Sam? Not if she really doesn't want to. Walking a dog is meant to be fun for owners as well as dogs. Providing Sam continues to be attentive to her and she does not experience the beginnings of any control issues. Which brings me to the last point My main reason for trying to encourage everyone with a gundog to get them retrieving, and, to manage their walks (ie mix free running up with heelwork, retrieving etc) is because I have had so much contact from people that have lost control of their dogs through failing to manage the dog effectively outdoors. It doesn't sound as though Sam falls into this category at all. But, it is extremely common, especially with working bred gundogs, for problems to arise if the owner does not take steps to engage the dog and interact with him outdoors. Sometimes to a far greater extent than the owner really wants to. And some dogs are simply not physically or mentally capable of 'mooching around'. Many spaniels, and some field bred labs have only two speeds. 'Stop', and 'flat out'. The only time that they 'walk' is when they are at heel. For people like me, this is a total joy. For some people, it is a waking nightmare. And in some cases, this inability to 'walk' unless matched against someone's leg, can last the dog's whole life long. Life in the 'fast lane' as they say, is not always straightforward. ;D Kate, I don't think you are being mean or rotten to Sam. I don't think anyone else thinks that either. I don't even think you have to give him retrieving exercises every day if you don't want to. But I wonder if maybe he is a little confused about what he is meant to be doing? Dogs often seem happiest when they are clear on what is expected of them, and 'just sniffing around' can be a tricky concept for some dogs to get their heads around. It could be, that Sam would be perfectly happy walking 'at heel' for part of your walk. This would enable you to switch off and relax, knowing exactly where he was, and prevent him having opportunities to constantly pick things up and pester you with them. You would need to experiment to see what suits the two of you best. Kerryn's point about her bag is also a good one. Dogs do get to know when retrieving is on the menu, and when it is not. When I say my 'all my walks involve retrieving' I am really refering to my daily exercise sessions, which if I am honest aren't what most people would call walks at all. Dogs seem to understand the 'paraphernalia' that goes with a particular type of outing. If I take a dog 'deer stalking' for example, they expect to be at heel for the entire outing. They would think I had taken leave of my senses if I suddenly pulled out a ball and threw it. If we are rough-shooting the dogs know that, because we have guns, and they have no expectations of a retrieves unless something is shot. On the other hand, if I have my dummy bag, and no retrieves were forthcoming, there would be a distinct air of disapproval! In time, if you only offer retrieving when you have a dedicated 'bag' with you, then hopefully Sam will come to know that 'today is retrieving day'. And learn not to expect retrieves at other times. This will be hastened if you completely ignore all other attempts to get you to throw things, including bringing you sticks etc. Pippa
Re: A slight problem I've been following this thread but feeling unable to contibute, however, what Pippa has posted has lots of similarities with my recent experiences with Lady. She's 100% working stock but kept as a pet who only works for her living once a fortnight in the winter. She's at best part trained to retrieve in a very amateur sort of way. She's had some one-to-one gundog training when she was getting on for 2 yrs old more to give me an idea of what I should be doing with her then anything else. So..... - She knows when she's out for a walk with me and maybe meeting up with some friends and other dogs. Selectively deaf, but will call back to lead and to heal but not reliably if other dogs are around, and pretty much lives for the many smells en route. - She knows when we are going to do some dummy work and loses interest in smells and focuses on retreiving in an informal way although I am getting success with her sitting before being released now although patience is measured in seconds. Planting the dummy for a blind retrieve is quite difficult because she has me under close supervision most of the time. Sent out to find a dummy blind she will stop on the whistle and look at me for instructions for left right and back - most of the time. We do it kind of ad hoc on our normal walks. - On our local shoot she sticks to me like glue and pretty much does exactly as she's told much to my amazement - and to the amazement of everyone else too I think. Next time out I'm putting her out to pick up on a single easy drive to see how she gets on with the help of a friend who knows what she's doing. - She knows when she is going into kennels and makes me feel guilty putting her in the car with her tail down and head down and submissive walk but blows it at the kennels by haring off to say hello to all the kennel maids and to steal kibbles from the office. - Then at home where she is most of the day on most days she pretty much makes a good impression of a couch potato, but sometimes groans to say I'm bored, and occasionally badgering me for a game. So yes I think she has a pretty good life really and adjusts how she reacts to the circumstances at the time. I think she would like to be a bit more active, but on balance I think she's content.
Re: A slight problem Thank you very much Pippa for the usual brilliant advice . Sam is happy, of that I have no doubt , he has a wonderful life, lots of off lead walks in fields, woods and beaches and so far , I havent had any recall problems at all , he tends to stay close, in fact stay close is the command I use in strange places . You may well be right about his confusion and so for that reason , Kerrys idea of a bag is a great one so that he knows what is expected of him on a particular walk . We went for a wonderful walk this morning ( just before he ripped his dew claw off ) , it was relaxing and enjoyable for us both . I hadnt taken his dummy or ball and he did seem happy to sniff about and just be with me , just before the walk ended he did pick up a stick and brought it to me , I made him leave, he did and I carefully put it down behind us, told him No when he looked at it and said Come on, lets go , which he happily did . This has shown me that you`re right Pippa , he is a little confused and yet when he knows what to do to please me, he is happy to comply . Thank you again all for the imput , I shall buy a bag tomorrow
Re: A slight problem I use a bag for Poppy's dummy too, and it seems to work a treat. When I dont have it with me, she doesnt bug me. When we do retrieving, and are finished, the dummy goes back in the bag. She does pester a bit, but then she is still very young - and she is definitely learning that dummy in bag means no more retrieves. Then she seems happy just to potter about. Like David's Lady, she also loses interest in all smells when the dummy comes out and becomes totally focused! It's a pleasure to take her out on walks, and I know we are very lucky with her. Kate, your Sam clearly has a lovely life with you. As Pippa says, he is obviously very happy being a pet, and from your posts you clearly want nothing but the best for him - so I am sure you will be doing some more complicated retrieving work with him as well as your more 'relaxing' walks.
Re: A slight problem Hi Kate Something that has worked for my very hard hunting, working strain, energetic "engage with me or I'll engage with the local wildlife" young lab bitch has been to teach her just to carry the dummy or a ball whilst walking with me. This seems to nicely cover her instincts to retrieve and carry something, uses her brain for the heel work and saves me having to constantly throw things for her to retrieve. Just train a "hold it" command when he brings you something back. She loves it and when she occasionally drops something we walk on for some time and use the dropped item as a memory retrieve (no constant bending down and picking up what she has dropped or constant throwing of the item for a retrieve!). It might be worth a try!
Re: A slight problem Thank you for this and welcome to the forum too Sam does love to carry so this might be worth a go
