Hi guys, I'm really not sure where we are going wrong with Bob. We take him out regularly to toilet etc.. and reward him with 3 treats if he goes. The problem is that I don't think he's seeing our house as his 'crate' yet and unless we see him standing by the back door, he will poo. He doesn't seem to think he should hold it in which he would do in his crate. He seems to be able to hold his wees in though. So there seem to be 2 issues still.. 1. he is not seeing our house as an extension of the crate yet so will still have the odd accident 2. he is not telling us when he needs to go. A little bark by the back door would get our attention but he just stands there silently and if we aren't downstairs then we will not see him. My boyfriend thinks it's because we trained him that barking doesn't get any attention (ie when he was doing it in his crate, we only went to him when he was silent). So how do we train him to bark or give us some sort of verbal cue when he needs to go out? We have followed all the rules with toileting. Accidents are not common but they are still happening on occasion. We take him out... reward him .. will it come with time do you think? Just carry on as we are doing? Thanks for your help. Lou x
Re: Accidents still... This must be frustrating. But I'm sure you can get over it. This was the issue with doing the toilet training with the door open, wasn't it? Bob isn't toilet trained when the door is closed. I think you need to repeat his toilet training. So that's constant supervision, or in a crate, and only allowed in the house when "empty". Just like a puppy. He shouldn't be stood by the back door needing a poo, because he'll poo. Just like a puppy would. Only, now he has a habit of pooing indoors, and he's older, it'll be a bit harder. So you must not risk him pooing indoors, probably for quite a long time. No pooing indoors, loads of treats for pooing outside. And no open door. For upwards of 2 to 3 months (about the same time as it takes to fully toilet train a young puppy). He won't bark to let you know he wants to go out, because he doesn't really. He's quite happy to poo by the back door. Once a dog's toilet training is strong, they get a bit distressed if they can't get out - and that's the mechanism for them to find a way to alert you. If they are happy to poo inside, they won't tell you they need to go out. Although you could try bells and so on, but I've never been completely convinced about that...
Re: Accidents still... Right OK thanks Julie. It IS frustrating. We left him from 10.30 to 3pm today (a lady popped in to give him his lunch and have a play). I left him downstairs with backdoor open as I didn't trust him not to have an accident in the house. Should I have left him in his crate for that long do you think? It just seems such a long time. So basically if we are not with him, pop him into his crate? I know he'll bark though, he's great at night but doesn't like the crate during the day at ALL. So we could be heading towards a different type of problem. Grrr it's all so annoying, I think we are doing everything we should but it's clearly not working. He only has had very few accidents but at 6 months surely he should be properly trained by now. Lou x
Re: Accidents still... Don't you know when he usually needs a poo? So can predict the danger times? I really do think this is the open door thing. If a puppy trots out into the garden through an open door whenever it needs to go out, it doesn't know what to do when faced with a closed door. S/he just thinks "I come this way when I need a wee/poo, so I'll have a wee/poo" once I can't go any further.
Re: Accidents still... I agree - he's used to an open door. I wouldn't leave it open at all, then I would re-train him as if he were a young pup. Like Julie says, you could crate him when you know poos are 'due'. Are his poos good and firm? They need to be, or he won't be able to hold them in.
Re: Accidents still... Hi Boogie, yes he's had a good spell of nice firm ones recently... so he hopefully won't be taken by 'surprise' at all. I agree the open door issue has probably caused this, which frustratingly, we didn't do very much at all really as it was so cold when the door was left open. We just did it on a few occasions but clearly it has affected his learning. So may I ask... we must crate him a lot more than we have been doing if we are not around to keep an eye on him (sorry Bob!) and then let out on our terms for toileting? Or should we still wait for him to stand by the door and ask to go? Thank you... I must add, these are rare accidents... we've had probably 2 or 3 in the past month I would say.. so we are generally staying on top of it and letting him out when he needs to go. It's just on the few occasions when we've either missed taking him out or he's been left for a longer spell. Lou x
Re: Accidents still... [quote author=Boogie link=topic=9962.msg144821#msg144821 date=1424453300] Like Julie says, you could crate him when you know poos are 'due'. [/quote] Sorry Boogie can I just be sure that you mean this? So if we have given Bob his breakfast he ALWAYS poos straight after. So we crate him then rather than let him go out? Or have I misunderstood?? Thanks, Lou x
Re: Accidents still... [quote author=Loopyloo30 link=topic=9962.msg144826#msg144826 date=1424454066] [quote author=Boogie link=topic=9962.msg144821#msg144821 date=1424453300] Like Julie says, you could crate him when you know poos are 'due'. [/quote] Sorry Boogie can I just be sure that you mean this? So if we have given Bob his breakfast he ALWAYS poos straight after. So we crate him then rather than let him go out? Or have I misunderstood?? Thanks, Lou x [/quote] No, sorry. What I mean is - if you are due to go out BUT he hasn't pood yet, haven been given the opportunity, 'tho you think he's due one. I would think that crating him will cause him to hold it 'till you get back, otherwise he may just go in the house as a pup would? I have to walk Gypsy when I am sure she's 'safe' because a lot of our puppy walking is in food shops, shopping centres, cafes etc - so I know how hard it is to know when they are due a poo! What I do is keep a 'poo diary' and (usually) the pattern is there to see and work round. Currently she has two in the morning then we go out.
Re: Accidents still... Lou, you need to have a good read through the toilet training resources - look at the link I sent you, it explains how to use the crate.
Re: Accidents still... Although if Bob isn't happy in his crate, you'll have to sort that out too, or use one of the other methods suggested. But as it's just poo, and not pee, then you should be able (with a poo diary, excellent idea!) adapt it so it's less trouble.
Re: Accidents still... Thanks guys. I'm loving the idea of a poo diary! Will start one straightaway! Appreciate all your help Lou x
Re: Accidents still... Here she is reading her poo diary when I first started it. I note time of poo and food times + treats she's had, as some things (like raw hide) change her poo pattern. I also note poo consistency with a code! (kickable always being the aim) k=kickable f=firm but not quite kickable l=loose s=sloppy hehe!
Re: Accidents still... Oh bless her she's such a sweetie! I'll get a diary tomorrow I know rough times for Bob. Lou x
Re: Accidents still... Well I got woken up at 3am, 4am and 5am last night by a whining dog. I kept going downstairs and there was no movement at all... so I made the assumption that he was just dreaming. Then eventually some proper barking and he'd soiled his crate really badly. Tidied everything up, then got woken again so let him out quickly and he had some really runny poos in the garden. I can only think it was the bone we gave him yesterday (it had been in the freezer a while so maybe wasn't in such a good state). He eventually settled after the second episode so we had a couple of hours sleep. Today we have had an accident again upstairs - a really wet poo so guessing he couldn't hold it. I know he's ill.. but I really feel that we are going backwards with Bob at the moment. I know I should cut him some slack as he's clearly off colour today.. but it does upset me that he's still going inside. I had literally taken him out just beforehand and he just stood there. So I'd let him back in, then he went again inside. GAH! And breathe......
Re: Accidents still... Even dogs that are really, really well house trained will have accidents if they are poorly. Charlie has, for sure.
Re: Accidents still... Thanks Julie. Yes it is such a shame.. he was obviously poorly last night. I am annoyed with myself because I went downstairs every time I heard him making noises but he was so quiet inside his crate when I got there, I just assumed he'd been dreaming! I know now for next time though It was a very messy and smelly experience! Not one I want to repeat in a hurry! Having a gentle day today, scrambled egg and probiotic for breakfast, rice & chicken for lunch and dinner. Will take him out for a walk as well later on, we were out this morning. I'm sure he will be OK, we will continue as is and keep taking him out and rewarding him well too. I read somewhere that if you DO find an accident in the house.. to scold the accident NOT the dog. (obviously only if dog is in the vicinity to see this happening) And then to take the accident (with dog) outside to the potty area and praise the accident & dog for being in right place! Seems a bit odd praising a poo LOL! What say you about that idea?! I've not tried it, think I'd feel a bit silly... some things you find on the internet eh?! Lou x
Re: Accidents still... [quote author=Loopyloo30 link=topic=9962.msg144976#msg144976 date=1424527190] I read somewhere that if you DO find an accident in the house.. to scold the accident NOT the dog. (obviously only if dog is in the vicinity to see this happening) And then to take the accident (with dog) outside to the potty area and praise the accident & dog for being in right place! Seems a bit odd praising a poo LOL! What say you about that idea?! I've not tried it, think I'd feel a bit silly... some things you find on the internet eh?! [/quote] Yes, that sounds a bit nutty, alright. ;D ;D ;D I just cleared up the mess with no fuss and carried on. There are no tricks to this, really. Arrange things so the dog does not have accidents in the house - and that means for months, not just a few days - and reward for going outside (always, so you have to be there to reward). And that's about it.
Re: Accidents still... Aw, bless poor Bob. Hope he starts feeling better soon. It must be super frustrating, but I'm sure it's just about perseverance. I love the idea of scolding a poo. Brilliant!
