Advice - Labs v Golden Retriever??

Discussion in 'Introductions & Saying Hello' started by carter, Aug 10, 2016.

  1. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    I remember when I was a vet nurse, a client came in with 2 Golden Retrievers and they lay down under the washbasin. When they left there was a carpet of hair and that day I made the decision never to have a GR!
     
  2. Boogie

    Boogie Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    I use a Tangle Teezer with Bruce. I groom him once a day - no hair problems :)


    ...
     
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  3. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Ooohhh I might use lizzies tangle whatsit on obi! He has a knot in the feathers on his tail.
     
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  4. carter

    carter Registered Users

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    The hair never bother me, I ran a slicker through him every morning. It took about 2mins and it kept the shedding down. Like labs they do take forever to dry, unfortunately I had to dry him as he as typical of the breed would get hot spots.
    He was a well bred confirmation line so had a heavy coat.
    From about 2 we has serious problems with allergies, which turned out to be seasonal, he was allergic to grass and would get a fungal infection from something in the water. Is it just me but a golden was bred to hunt in fields and water, what the heck has happened to the breed.
    Now my dogs are used to get wet and dirty, but the golden I would have to bath and dry if this happened, which was not a quick job. I referred to him as my high maintenance blond. Do you see a lot of allergies in labs?
    I appreciate all your replies
     
  5. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    This depends on the Lab. I have two, who are litter mates, but completely different coats on them. The yellow has a very soft, almost downy, coat and he stays wet for quite a long time. His sister, black, has a more traditional Lab coat, and dries in a heartbeat.
     
  6. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    As for allergies, a few people here have dogs that suffer from them. My experience is limited; Willow got bad hayfever last year from pine tree pollen, but this year hasn't been affected. Probably because last summer we were in Andorra, where there are literally clouds of it billowing up from the forest every time there's a gentle breeze, and this year, we're mainly in Spain, where, despite having pines, they either finished their pollination before we arrived, or it's just a different type.
     
  7. mcatalao

    mcatalao Registered Users

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    When we planned to get a dog, we ruled down the breeds to GR and Labs. GR are much more prone to oncologic diseases than Labs, so we stayed away from it, though i really liked them. It's not that labs don't get diseases, but it's pretty much as bbrown said. At more than 50 thousand registered full bread dogs in uk per year, and more than 100 thousand in us, labs are the top breed in the world, and their gene pool is really broad compared to other breeds. And this doesn't count unregistered, and crossed breeds. Maybe a GR-LAB cross is the best fit for you!

    A great deal of diseases come from recessive genes, so it could even flat down the chance from them. Of course, diseases that are common to both breeds would remain with the same chance, but that works equally for pure breads, or crosses i guess.
     
  8. mandyb

    mandyb Registered Users

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    I started with a GR 38yrs ago, he was a gorgeous dog who lived to nearly 14 when his kidneys let him down, but he was an old fashioned working line dog, a really dark gold colour, slight build and very athletic. TBH I wouldn't consider one today, I don't like the heavy bone, heavy coat, almost white colour in most, and the way they seem to lumber around with no energy. There may be a few breeders of the working line GR around but they're few and far between.
     
  9. carter

    carter Registered Users

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    MandyB I remember those GRs, still see them in working lines. I notice a few of you are from the UK. I did a lot of research into cancer in Goldens and European Goldens are about 30% where ad North America about 60%!
    I am originally from England, left 20years ago, my husband was in the army we did 8yrs in Germany and then came to Canada, when my hisband retired we stayed in Canada, and MandyB I was from Devon too.
    SnowyB are you Spanish, or another expat?
     
  10. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    I'm a migrant, yup!
    I've lived in Andorra for many years and just bought a summer property in north-east Spain.
    Most of the members here are from the UK, although it's becoming more and more international as time goes on :)
     
  11. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Longest on the Forum without an actual dog

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    This is really interesting! Did you find any similar research about Labs in North American vs. Europe?

    This is my first time looking for a dog in Europe (I've had one pure bred Rottie from a good breeder and one from rescue in the US) and am finding some rather significant differences not only in health but also temperament and body type in a few of the breeds I'm looking at. In fact, this is why I'm strongly considering becoming a Labrador first-timer, because the Rotties here in Germany are so different from my two Rottie boys that I'd almost call them a different breed. They are beautiful dogs here, but not the calm jokesters I fell in love with 20 years ago.
     
  12. carter

    carter Registered Users

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    I see quite a difference in a lot of breeds, both physically and mentally.
    It was very noticeable when we first came here. I remember thinking how different some breeds look here.
    The labs are pretty obvious difference between North American and English.
    In fact I near a breeder who breeds "English style labs"
    I know people who own these labs have problems with people telling them that there dog is not a lab but a lab pit mix. One girl was so mad she brought her papers in to show someone lol.
    I do think the English style labs here are being bred over exaggerating bulkier.
    The research on Goldens was an article by Dr Mercola, it is long but interesting.
    There is another breeder who breeds North American lines with English style lines, she doesn't in breed and wants a varied gene pool.
    I do agree that Goldens probably have a smaller gene pool.
    I teach scent detection (nosework) and have a group of us who meet up and train once a week and do the odd demo. We are a group with a mix bag of dogs, beagles, border collie, cocker, ridgeback, Dalmatian, my dogs.
    And then we have 2 labs, OMG from day one they kicked ass. I have worked a 9 wk old lab, Amazing!
    I have always owned Border Collies, presently I have my old BC girl and a big BC x GSD boy. The golden came my way via my daughter. To say a gun dog was a learning curve was an understatement lol. Yes the golden was stubborn.
    I had just started the process of getting him ready for a therapy dog, when I lost him. Hemangiosarcoma is nasty most of the time your dog just drops dead, the tumour you are unaware of ruptures. Carter just stated coughing as if something was in his throat, after an X-ray showed his lungs for full of cancer he had days to live, I did the kindest thing and end his suffering, from him developing the cough happened in 5 days.
    Anyways I would like to have a dog that would like therapy work I think labs could do this.
     
  13. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Longest on the Forum without an actual dog

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    Thanks for the reply. Again, really interesting. I do see huge differences in some breeds here in Europe vs. the US, most notably GSDs, Rotties and Vizlas. Very different body types. Here in Germany the labs don't look all that different. I live in Bavaria which is very into dog sports/hunting, so I think most of the labs I'm seeing are field, not the the bulkier show lines.

    My condolences for Carter. My dog Brogan (in my avi) also passed away from hemangiosarcoma. I'd never even heard of it before it killed him. We had a totally normal day, we went for our normal evening walk with friends at 4pm, at 5pm he suddenly couldn't walk anymore. I rushed him straight to the vet but by 6:30pm he was dead. He had no pain (just weakness from blood loss) and I was with him the whole time, so for him it was the best way he could have gone. For me, it was very hard to wrap my head around walking out the door at 4:00 with my best boy and walking back into my apartment at 7:30 with just a leash. Six months later and it still seems unreal.
     
  14. carter

    carter Registered Users

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    It is a heart break as you do not know it is there.
    Are you German. I lived in Gutersloh and then Bielefeld.
    I have to say Germany has amazing dog owners. Nearly all dogs are intact, no problem. I had a GSD which I had when I went to Germany, he was the old fashioned straight backed, this breed is so loved in Germany.
    I do not like the GSDs here, they are frail physically and mentally. I have seen so many nervous skittish ones here. This is not a safe dog and it the thing I love about the GSD is their steadfastness. Interesting and sadly hemangiosarcoma is occurring in GSDs at a high rate.
     
  15. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Longest on the Forum without an actual dog

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    No, not German - I'm a transplanted American from California. Not in the military either - I just came here to learn German for a couple months and just kept coming back because I liked it so much.

    Ironically I don't see that many GSDs where I am in Bavaria, but I also live part time in southern Spain where GSDs are by far the most popular pure bred and there they are just lovely dogs - square (non sloped) backs and very calm. It is really tempting to get one from there, but I still think a GSD is too much dog for me. A labrador might me too, but that is why I'm here to learn more about them and to find out if I have enough energy to keep one happy!
     
  16. carter

    carter Registered Users

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    I did not know, Spain had a big population of GSDs, we travelled a lot around Europe with ours and some countries were nervous of the breed because they only see them as working guard dogs.
    So how was the change for you going from a Rottie to a lab
     
  17. Emily_BabbelHund

    Emily_BabbelHund Longest on the Forum without an actual dog

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    People definitely respect GSDs but I get the impression they are admired than feared. No one feared my Rottie, he had a baby face. :) Also the "service dog" vest and ever-present neck kerchief also probably helped.

    I've not yet made the leap from Rottie to lab. My boy died six months ago and I'm just this summer even considering getting a different dog. But frankly it is tough - Brogan will be a hard act to follow. With 13 years together we were like an old married couple.

    I'm here on the forum to learn more about Labs and if they are the right dog for me. If I could get another Rottie like my first two, I'd do so in a heart beat, but the breed has changed a lot (to bring it back to the topic of Golden Retrievers - this is why this thread interested me as it seems that GR have also changed a lot in the last 20 years). Add to that (1) Rotties are primarily seen as working dogs (no separate "show line" as in the US/UK) here in Germany and what I've seen so far would make amazing Schutzhund dogs but not particularly good assistance/service dogs. This makes sense as they are primarily used here for dog sport. And the big (2) is that Rotties are "List dogs" here in Bavaria and in many other places in Europe which makes them challenging to have as pets and exponentially more challenging to certify as an assistance dog. I'm working with a lawyer to better understand this.

    This summer I'm spending time opening my mind to other breeds and researching what might be a good fit for me as an assistance dog and as a my best buddy. I've never had a huge interest in labs one way or the other, but thought it important to look into them as they are so often used in service work. From what I've learned so far, I've gained a huge amount of respect for this breed. I do think the training would be a challenge for me as would their energy level, which is much higher than Rotties.

    However, I think day to day life, especially the public contact aspect, would be easier. In general, people really like labs. It is doubtful I'd have the issues of being kicked or verbally attacked on the street. Or have to change places over and over in planes or trains to avoid offending someone. Or get swabbed for drugs at every security checkpoint (which is truly funny as I am a frumpy-looking round middle aged chick - talk about "anti-profiling"). It's sort of funny as my dog actually had a lab body type (he was a rescue so likely mixed) but add that touch of brown that says "Rottie" and people get touchy. We won over a lot of people through his excellent behaviour and me always keeping a polite smile on my face, but the "winning over" was always needed as people's pre-conceived notions of the breed are very strong and overwhelmingly negative. I am very proud that Brogan was such a good ambassador, however, and know he changed many attitudes throughout his long life.

    Anyway, that was a long reply to answer your short question! Short answer - I don't know yet how it is going from Rottie to Lab!
     
  18. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    It's interesting to hear you say there's no work/show split in Rotties. I haven't met many Rotties in my time, but they have all been the stereotypical picture; that big bruiser of a dog, very big and powerful, but soft as melted butter. But last year, I was playing in a river with my two in Spain and a couple arrived with a Rottie bitch, who was shorter than Willow and Shadow by a long way. She was a lovely, playful little thing, so I asked how old she was, to which they said four years. I said, but she's tiny! They said it's because she's from working stock, and that's what they look like. I never took the time to investigate further, though.
     
  19. carter

    carter Registered Users

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    Yes they are listed in Germany, I was living in Germany when the knee jerk reaction brought their dangerous dog act in. Initially if you owned any dog that was over I think 20lb it had to registered as a category 4 dangerous dog, you had to be assessed. Then they said if you have owned the dog for 3yrs with no issue you didn't need to be assessed. One glaringly obvious point was like the Rottie the Doberman was also a named breed but the GSD was not named and fell into cat4 because of size. Apparently the SV club is pretty powerful.

    Also the way I understand it in Germany just because your dog has full registration does not mean any pups will be registered, the dog needs to pass breed specific test. That is why there is not such a big divide in the working and show lines.

    One of the reasons I am considering a lab is how accepted they are.
    As for energy level, here there is a huge difference between the working North American lines that would be up there with my border collies and the show English lab lines, which are pretty low key. There are other reasons I am considering a lab, like you it will be a change and I want yo be sure.

    I also haven't seen any working line Rotties, but I notice there is a big difference between male and female.

    Snowbunny I have to ask do you think Britain leaving Europe will have an affect on you
     
  20. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator Forum Supporter

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    Be careful about generalising the energy levels of working and show line (or American and English lines as they seem to equate to). We definitely have members on this forum that would claim high energy levels for show line dogs ;)
    On the other hand my working line lab is pretty chilled out (except when there are pheasants around!) :D
     
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