Hi I am new to the forum and wanted to advice with our nearly 11 week old lab. We have had her nearly 3 weeks. we have have having quite a ‘problem’ with sleeping at the moment. I have never crate trained a dog before so it’s a bit new to me! We had a few sleepless nights at the start and were advised to bring crate upstairs and gradually move her down. She has settled pretty well upstairs. She would have a last toilet stop at 11.30 and then would settle when we put her back in. We moved her back to the utility last night (after 8-9nights upstairs) and again last toilet break 11.30pm approx but then she woke at 2 and 5am and would not settle very well and we ended up just being up with her at 5. We don’t want her howling/shouting at ridiculous times or our neighbours will hate us! She settles ok in the day with a kong in her crate but the nights are still a struggle! Just looking for more advise as we are feeling very sleep deprived now Also any tips on excited wee wee’s?! Doesn’t make a difference if she has just been out or not. Thanks in advance
It might be a good idea to have the puppy upstairs until they can sleep through long enough for you to get up with them in the morning. Especially if you have close neighbors to worry about. That's because if you get up in the night to a puppy then leave them alone after they have been outside, they are going to howl and if you return when they howl, you are reinforcing the howling. When the puppy was next to your bed did she still need to go out to pee during the night? And does she sleep in her downstairs crate regularly during the day? If not then she might be much happier in her crate at night once she is used to sleeping in it for short periods during the day.
Hi Pippa When she was upstairs she would still get us up at least once a night to go outside. How long would you keep a dog upstairs without risking not being able to move them back down? Will it be detrimental to move her back upstairs after 3 nights downstairs? Overnight on 2nd night in the utility she shouted for 10 minutes when we put her in at 10. Woke us up at 2 and 4 and both times went straight out to toilet and came back in and I didn’t interact with her at all. Took 20 minutes for her to settle with me standing in the room. She slept with the litter in the daughter’s bedroom at night at the breeders so maybe this is not helping the change? She initially was sleeping in her crate a lot in the day when we first got her to try and crack on with toilet and crate training but we thought we were trying to separate her away from us too much and it wasn’t helping her settle in. We are now trying to get her in the crate more in the day. She will settle if she has a kong to go into the crate and then she goes to sleep.
Edit: night 3: She went to sleep after 5 minutes of noise and then woke at 2.30, went outside and toileted straightaway. Put her back in with. O speaking or eye contact and then sat by the door and ignored her. She settled after 5-10 mins. 5am was the next wake up, again did the same thing, and toileted, except this time would not settle when back in the crate. Would start shouting after 5 mins of me being back in bed.
Well, there's no right or wrong answer here. So it sounds as if the 2am bathroom break went well, but at 5am, she had decide it was morning and wanted to get up. For that we'd usually recommend you set your alarm half an hour earlier (to pre-empt the noise) and work your way forwards from there. But it's clear that your puppy is quite muddled about night and day and doesn't feel very at home in her crate. Plus three weeks of sleepless nights has got to be taking its toll on you. And your puppy almost certainly could last six or seven hours during the night from a physical point of view at this age. So the waking and disturbing you is more of an emotional thing - she's figured out that crying gets you up. If she's peeing very frequently during the day though, do get a pee sample over to your vet to check for a bladder infection. If she doesn't have a UTI You have several options really. One is to take her back into your bedroom at night and start again with daytime crate conditioning. (Getting her to love the crate and never leaving her alone in there during the day until she can settle happily in it with you in the room, whenever you put her in there.) Another is to visit your neighbours with flowers or wine and chocolates and tell them there will be some noise for the next two or three nights, let her out at 2:00 before she starts to cry. Then leave her to cry at 5 am and get up immediately she stops. So as to break out of the cycle of reinforcing the yelling with your very desirable company . The third option is to put a play pen around the crate with puppy pads inside the playpen (outside the crate) and leave her all night. Let her pee on the pads. I'd probably go for that one at this stage in the game, but it all depends on how well you can function without a decent sleep. You'll still require chocolates for option three. Most people will not object if you show you are really sorry to be disturbing them.
Hi Pippa Thanks for your reply again. 3 weeks is definately taking it’s toll! Ok so I will continue to concentrate on day crate training again and have time with us in the living room in the evening again. At the start we would play with her in the room where her crate was and then as she was getting tired we would put her in to sleep and then leave. We were thinking back and the first 2 nights she was sleeping 10.30-5/6 but we were waking up to wet bed but she hadn’t cried so yes she may have realised that we will get up now. Are we doing the right thing to stand and ignore her at 2am if she is back in her crate? Even if we have pre empted the cry and get up before her? if she cries before we get up at 2an do we still do what we are doing? We take her out a lot during the day and she mostly goes on command but we will maybe try and not take her out so often so that she learns to hold it longer? I will get some wine ordered! I have already spoken to them but gifts are a good idea.
Hi If she is starting to cry before your alarm for the toilet then yes ignore until she is quiet then go and take her out, don't interact and then straight back to bed. If this is happening you need to look at adjusting your alarm earlier so that you can be up before her. Do you lift the water bowl at night? If so what time? If she is drinking a lot before bed then this will be resulting in her needing more. Puppies don't have control over the bladder much until about 6/7 months old. You will need to be watching for signs that they are needing to wee so that you can take them outside and reward it. As they grow they will be able to go longer without the toilet as their bladder grows.
Hi thanks for your reply We set an alarm for 1.30 last night, took her out and she settled immediately. I did the same at 4.30 (I woke up then anyway, not her) took her out and she settled and curled up when she was back In - I thought she was settled enough. About 5 minutes later the noise started at continued for 20 odd minutes. I guessed at this point she was awake and wasn’t going to settle so I waited for a quiet period and just got up with her so that she then couldn’t start up again. I sat in the utility with her in the hope she would still be tired and would settle back in her crate but she didn’t. I’m going to start with the crate training in the day today again as Pippa suggested. My question is: if she settles and sleep do I leave the room and then go back before she wakes?
Sorry, she also doesn’t have water in her crate mainly because she tips it everywhere! Her last drink is normally 10.30pm
What time does she normally go to sleep at? You might find that for now your days will begin at 5! If she settles during the day I would say leave her to wake up herself but also wait for a quiet time to go see her. When you go and she is quiet make sure you praise and treat her so she knows that good things happen when quiet. That is quite late for a last drink, I know some books and puppy owners lift the water bowls about 8/9 at night latest. If you are going to lift it though make sure she isn't running around making her need a drink.
We normally put her to bed around 10, mainly as we go to bed fairly early but also to reduce the lateness if she is howling before she settles. she settled this morning in her crate on her own whilst I was cleaning in there and I was eventually able to shut the crate door but left utility door open and she slept. I heard her yawn when she was awake so went in and let her out. This was the correct thing to do I assume? Thanks so much for all the advice. 3 weeks of sleepless nights are definately taking its toll on us both and I’m losing the willpower now
I am an early to bed person too. Try lifting her water at 8 tonight and see how you get on, but if she goes looking for a drink and starts crying then wait till she is quiet and give her some. That is the right thing as she was just waking up and before she had a chance to cry to be let out you were there. Puppies need to pee: As soon as they wake up After playing After training After eating Usually every 20-30 minuets when they are awake and 2-3 hours during the night. If you try to think about the above hopefully it will help you get into the routine of when she needs to go and she will learn that too and you are there for her. During the night she might wake up because she hears something that spooks her, and can cry or howl because she is scared or to tell you something is wrong. It might be worth looking into having music playing softly in the room and see if this helps her settle. Remember during the day just now she is used to the noise of you in the house, at night that isn't there. I was the same at the start and was very tired! Now Luna has just turned 11 months and she still has her little madam moments but she is such a well behaved little girl.
Thank you so much Christina She has settled 3 times in her crate today and gone in there herself. I have sat in the utility whilst she settles though. If she has gone in there and just been quiet I have just put a few treats in for her too and fed her everytime in there today. If she wakes in the night do I just grin and bear the noise and wait? Even at ‘ridiculous o clock’? Obviously I will try and set alarms again but on the off chance she wakes herself? thanks again!
Hi Just a quick update with our pup. She settled well each time on Friday And Saturday in her crate in the day. She even chose her crate over her living room bed at one point so we removed that bed. Friday night was much better. She went straight to bed in her crate and settled (I read my book whilst she went to sleep). I got up and let her out just before 2am and she settled straight away! She refused to go out at 4 when my sleep confused brain panicked and got her up again! My husband then got her up around 5 Last night very similar although I think she heard our alarms and did cry but only for a minute or so and then we went downstairs when she was quiet. Husband got her up at 5.30 and then she slept again 6-8am... I feel like we have made so progress this weekend thanks for all the advice. Now to plod on for the next few weeks and see if we can get her sleeping through properly!
Hi so glad to hear you had a good weekend with her! Even that extra little bit of sleep will make the difference for you. If your husband is up for work at 5/5.30 then you may get away with only one alarm at 1.30/2 for toileting. Its so nice to hear she is settling in her crate. I son't know where you are based but I am in Scotland and it has turned cold again during the nights, make sure she is cosy and fingers crossed she she will then sleep quite happily.
Hi Cristina My husband has been getting up and starting work if he can at 5/5.30 at the moment as that is when She wakes. I got up last night at my normal time 1.3-2 and she refused to go out and went back to sleep until 4.45/5 I think it was when we heard she was awake so definately making progress We are in the midlands and it has been cold the last few nights so she has had a snuggle safe heat disc in her duvet. The extra sleep has made a difference for sure. We can start taking her out tomorrow so hopefully that will also help too Thanks for all your advice! And to Pippa too! We can see the light at the end of the tunnel now.
Hi Meeliza, welcome to the forum This article on our main site has details of what vaccines puppies need and when.
