Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Oh what a stress for you...I was scanning down your thread and got to this just as I was thinking exactly the same thing .... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10247.msg150514#msg150514 date=1426715144] I reckon you just got a duff vet there... [/quote] This is a serious...all be it manageable condition but you need to have a good relationship with your vet when you are probably going to have more visits than the average and a condition that is going to need ongoing management..... I bounce between 3 vets ( and I can even say 4 if I count help and advice I've had from the UK) I've managed this without being disrespectful I hope , :-\ but for serious issues ( tail amputation) and ongoing unsuccessful treatment of ailments ( eg ear issues) I've been honest about asking for my test results and seeking a second opinion.We don't have pet insurance choices available (well,there is a very limited policy available now) so I do feel ok about doing this,I pay a fortune so I want to feel happy with the treatment we get . Best wishes Angela x
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Thanks for your reassurance about dogs behaving badly at the vets... something to work on guess! He's much better now when he goes to his rehab clinic, less worked up, it's just the proper vets we need to work on - doesn't really help when the nurses encourage him and play with him on arrival..! Feeling a bit sad this morning as watched supervet last night - never normally do - and say that poor alsatian pup having to be put to sleep as he had ED and HD. I don't think for one minute Monty is as bad as he was, but it's just making me think a a bit about what his realistic life expectancy is (am hoping for 5-6 yrs) and what would be fair for him to put up with in terms of treatment. On a brighter note this morning, you would not know there was a thing wrong with him, he's just put a hole in my jumper and tried to pull me out the room. Outrageous behaviour when I've just got up!
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Good to see that Monty is feeling lively this morning, hope it wasn't your favourite jumper he's just ruined. I watched Supervet last night as well, try not to miss an episode, and sobbed over the poor Alsatian pup with HD and ED as well. Such a hard decision to make and really made me think as to what I would do if that was Juno. One of the thing that was said made me think though. Noel Fitzpatrick said that the pup would always have been in pain and his owner thought that was why he hadn't done all the things her previous pups had. Now I'm worrying that Juno has always been in pain as she's always been such a quiet girl, not jumpy, not chewy, not barking etc.
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! I have resisted saying this about Fitzpatrick's referrals - but, it is important to remember this is a TV programme, and the clips will be chosen for maximum viewer impact. Also, fantastic though some of their work is there, they do have a reputation for taking the most dramatic (and expensive) treatment options (sometimes proving them to be the most effective). So I'm saying many dogs get treated for these conditions without the additional drama we see on Supervet... [quote author=leejane link=topic=10247.msg150729#msg150729 date=1426837278] but it's just making me think a a bit about what his realistic life expectancy is (am hoping for 5-6 yrs) and what would be fair for him to put up with in terms of treatment. [/quote] I don't think you should think like this. I think you should pour all your energy into finding and research a proper treatment plan for your dog - and definitely get a second opinion from a vet you trust about the surgical options. Your dog has some joint problems and these days, if you find the right vet, there are very effective treatments and drugs available. Ok, it's got to stay practical and affordable, but an awful lot can be done. I honestly can't believe that you've been told a vet won't operate on your dog because he's a loon. I do agree that keeping nutty dogs quiet after surgery is difficult, but it's perfectly possible. They can be in a crate for a start. I had to have my dog in a crate for six weeks. It was a sad time, but we got through it and he has forgotten all about it now. I worked and worked and worked on Charlie behaving at the vet's - and he is "ok" now. He'll still do a honking whine when he sees other dogs in the waiting room, pull towards them and occasionally jump up on people. To be honest, after looking back at how hard I worked for what I got, I think the best tactic is just to feed treats as a distraction, and have your dog on whatever attachment (harness and a handle lead) best allows you to hang on to your dog and keep him safe. It's more important to stop your dog jumping around and injuring himself than it is what anyone thinks about how your dog is behaving. I have at least got him to "settle" now while I talk to a vet, but it's been a long time coming. I honestly would not worry about a young Labrador misbehaving in the vet's - a small space, very close to other dogs. There isn't a lot you can do about it. I totally agree about vet nurses approaching your dog, squeeking hello in excited voices, and then being surprised when your dog jumps up. I think they are quite nuts.
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! I totally agree with Julie. And.....Don't think in terms of a shortened lifespan. There is no need to think that at all. You should be expecting a normal lifespan for Monty - I believe that is realistic.
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Thanks everyone, just a pretty good walk with him while you've been posting and a bit cheerier now. I'm absolutely sure that we could keep Monty quiet after surgery, he's brilliant in a crate, we worked very hard on this when he was a pup, and despite my descriptions of him - and the fact he's trying so hard to steal my toast right now, - in the house he's often a calm dog so I think we could manage this. He didn't actually say he would definitely not operate, just that he would really not want to - however I think it's cheeky of him to suggest we would let him tear around and chew stitches! Hes' obviously had some experience of this happening before, the way he described it, and I imagine a dog who has never been create trained would be so difficult to keep calm
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! [quote author=MaccieD link=topic=10247.msg150730#msg150730 date=1426838309] Now I'm worrying that Juno has always been in pain as she's always been such a quiet girl, not jumpy, not chewy, not barking etc. [/quote] Hi Rosemary, I know exactly what you mean, although Monty loves to run he can rarely manage 5 minutes at a time, nowhere near other dogs. I also worry about him panting sometimes, as this can be a sign of pain. Can only worry with you...
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! I'm in agreement with Julie about the vet. I would be looking for someone much more engaged either with my dog or myself, preferably both!!! Sounds like a stereotypical narcissistic orthodox surgeon, which is not ok. I would concentrate on quality of life not quantity. If the prognosis is good then I would be full steam ahead Very best of luck!
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! [quote author=leejane link=topic=10247.msg150743#msg150743 date=1426841533] [quote author=MaccieD link=topic=10247.msg150730#msg150730 date=1426838309] Now I'm worrying that Juno has always been in pain as she's always been such a quiet girl, not jumpy, not chewy, not barking etc. [/quote] Hi Rosemary, I know exactly what you mean, although Monty loves to run he can rarely manage 5 minutes at a time, nowhere near other dogs. I also worry about him panting sometimes, as this can be a sign of pain. Can only worry with you... [/quote] Hi Natalie, Let's try not too worry together. I'm lucky that Juno can run around with the best of them and had done on the ballade educative we've done with our trainer. An hour to 90 minutes of play, run, climb with other dogs and learning social skills. On the other hand at the moment I'm grateful for having such a quiet girl so she doesn't need to be crated post-op. As soon as she shows signs of getting lively etc. it's just a No from me and a fuss to quieten her down. She is doing a lot of self-calming at times as well, bless her. Fingers crossed that we continue as we are a I sold the crate the other week and it will take for ever to bet another delivered here.
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Hi, Just thought I'd update on this post, I had a good chat with my physio vet at the weekend, and she suggested we ask for the CT scan to be carried out at a different vets - they are fortunately very close to where I work so convenient, and have a state of the art CT scanner which should give very clear scans tho' we'd have to repeat the consultation process . I had a friendly chat this week with my own vet, asking for a second referral, touching lightly on some of the problems I had encountered with the first ortho surgeon, and he seemed very happy to refer on elsewhere - and did so within 10 minutes. In fact his only issue with not referring there in the first place was the cost - apparently the whole place is state of the art, thus prices are higher. So hopefully on Wednesday another consultation and CT scan.... I phoned Pet plan this week wondering if they would increase our insurance cover.... surprise surprise no! no one could blame them with ED and HD on his records... Will have to ramp up Monty's savings account...
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Thanks Julie, I am comforted by the support I got here in not just accepting the views of the first person we saw... I just hope we can now afford the certainly more expensive treatment.
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Ah, the bills are tough, I know. My insurance covered a lot, but it was still painful paying the rest. I hope you find a practical way forward. Let's hope the new vet is good and you have confidence in him/her. And good for you in raising the problems with the first referral, more people should have the confidence to do that.
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Thanks Julie, I was dreading saying to my own vet 'I didn't really like the person you sent me to and what they had to say' but it was actually much easier in the end, and we both chuckled in agreement about the nonsense of removing NSAIDS because they mask the pain ... duh of course they do, that's the point - and yes he's still on them... ( I guess I forget these people are businesses first and foremost and none of them will lose out if I chose to go elsewhere as I always have to pay a bill)
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Fingers crossed for the new referral and scan. I know how important that scan can be as we all believed it was Juno's left elbow that was the main problem, but hey ho one scan later and it was clear that the left elbow is fine and it was the right elbow at fault. So glad we didn't just go for surgery following the x-rays. Vet bills are scary particularly with how quickly they add up, I don't know costs in the UK but here we paid 200+ euros for X-rays, 360 euros for the scan and that's with out the op etc. Still waiting to see if our insurance will re-imburse as here you pay the bills and then claim it back.... Will be thinking of you on Wednesday.
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Well done for asking for a second referral hope all goes well Wednesday x
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Good luck Natalie, fingers crossed all goes well on Wednesday, we will be thinking about you both xxx
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! [quote author=MaccieD link=topic=10247.msg152708#msg152708 date=1427615831] Fingers crossed for the new referral and scan. I know how important that scan can be Vet bills are scary particularly with how quickly they add up, I don't know costs in the UK but here we paid 200+ euros for X-rays, 360 euros for the scan and that's with out the op etc. Still waiting to see if our insurance will re-imburse as here you pay the bills and then claim it back.... [/quote] It had better be the best CT scan in the world ever... I got an approx price for it today so I didn't fall over in shock at the reception desk on wednesday and it's about £1,200 for the consult, anesthetic and scan ... I had better apply for a new credit card but no really :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! I know, it's so very expensive. But I have just paid more than that - in London - for a set of follow up x-rays for Charlie. I don't mean to start a "who has the highest vet bill" thing, I just mean that modern vet treatment is very expensive and although it doesn't make paying the bills any easier, I don't think that is a bad price for a CT scan. It's a lot of money, but not a rip off. What did they say the scan would tell them in terms of a way forward?
Re: Aghh! no running for 6 months! Well going on the first surgeon's suggestions, it would show whether surgery was worth considering a priority right now, or at all- either removing small, or larger pieces of bone that were already affected by arthritis. I think the CT gives a better all round picture of what the damage is, and from my physio vets point of view what sort of exercise and training he should be doing in the long term to manage it. There are apparently three different types of damage / diagnoses caused by ED (have not committed these to memory yet till I know which one I need to worry about), and only the CT scan will show exactly what the damage is . This surgeon might well have different things to say, my main hope is that he is nice to my dog and doesn't call him a plonker! My shock at the price is because the other surgeon indicated it would be more like 6-700, so this is about double that - and my experience with vets until last summer had been limited to cats whose bills had always been much more moderate and not involved travelling to specialists. Think Monty has been a baptism of fire to the world of veterinary medicine!!
