Re: BAT tips I wonder if my reactive dog to dogs and humans was due to his fractured elbow at 16 weeks and having to go off to Birmingham (30 miles away) and stay there for a few days and suffer the pain of an operation, he was such a dear little puppy at that stage. His experience of humans must be linked to pain even if they were kind to him. I do thank you Jen, your experience has filled me with hope. My other Lab isn't a bit the same thank heaven, I just have to show him a tennis ball and he is all mine ;D
Re: BAT tips I do hope it helps Stacia as much as its helped my two. Unfortunately I do have two the same. : . Your other lab sounds very much like my old lab. Anything for a tennis ball and assumed everyone and everything must be coming to play. ;D you can imagine what a shock these two are. : My two started as normal, friendly, lab pups greeting people like you'd expect until the unfortunate veterinary experience which started at about 12 weeks to 6 months of age so your dogs reactivity could well have been triggered by his experience at 16 weeks. Keep me posted on how you get on. Oh and get some really tasty treats preferably stinky ones which helps get their attention even more. I use CSJ fishcuits which is basically dried salmon and stinks. These are special treats only used for BATing so they stay special. ;D Good luck.
Re: BAT tips Drift was 8 months old before he could be off lead and socialising, so a bit late really. I will get some of those fishcuits from CSJ, thanks for the tip.
Re: BAT tips David and I got our BATing average up a little bit more at the weekend. We were walking up a tiny path which devides back gardens on either side leading to the paddock. There was Charlie the Cocker Spaniel on one side and Beatle the Daschund on the opposite barking like crazy at Charlie who just tood in the middle looking at them both then looked at David for sausage for being so quiet and well behaved x
Re: BAT tips Well done Charlie. ;D He's got it Helen yippee. ;D It is funny when they look at you as if saying 'ok where's my treat I've just been really good ? ' ;D ;D
Re: BAT tips Jen, It was the first time he has looked for the treat even in the middle of the massive barking from the other two dogs , so I hope he continues now he has done it once. Last week he even walked past Harry (they don't care for each other) and Sid the flatcoat (the dog that attacked Hattie :'() no problem at all, yet at the weekend he went crazy when he saw Sid the FC on the other side of the road. They are moving soon so won't have to worry about Sid any more x Thanks Jac, x
Re: BAT tips Maybe because there was so much barking his self calming behaviour needed to be stronger/more obvious or more likely he's learnt when another dog is about and kicking off he gets a treat so he was looking at David in anticipation. Either way he's got the idea. My two are now very good at looking at me, in fact they will now walk along and look at me every so often even if there's no trigger because they know thats how to get a treat :, but sometimes for what ever reason they don't so I cue it. It might actually be my fault. They might not feel the need to look at me/calm themselves until they are clser to that particular trigger but I need to get the fish out etc. : I'd say charlies definitely BATing boundaries now.
Re: BAT tips Ok it's time I faced facts and admitted it even though I don't like to say it out loud or write it down in case I jinx it but BAT works. Training has definitely Adjusted the Bhaviour of my dogs especially with other reactive dogs. There have been a number of incidents over the last couple of weeks when I expected my dogs to react, when my dogs should've reacted, when not even a whole fillet steak should've stopped them reacting but they DIDN'T !!!! On a couple of occasions they even calmed themselves I saw it with my own eyes. One evening walk I didn't realise but a border collie was rounding us up coming nearer and nearer. Scott's hackles went up and they got difficult to move. I wasn't pleased with their behaviour although no barking until I realised what the dog behind was doing I thought it was on a lead. I asked the man if he could but it on a lead as my dogs are very nervous. As soon as he called his dog and put it on a lead Scott's hackles down and I could see them both relax. As the dog passed they looked at it then turned to me !!!! That is one if not the main aim of BAT to teach a reactive dog how to self calm. DONE IT I think. : Now we just need the same result with people. I've been testing a theory that I came up with after they hadn't reacted to a complete stranger coming right up to us to show me a photo on a phone but then reacted to one of the people I know but they don't trust from at least 5 meters. The theory is complete strangers aren't seen as a threat so no need to panic and scare off whereas people I know but they don't trust are a threat. These are the people who they met and who tried to stroke them when they were at the height of their fear between 6 and 12 months of age. It has also occurred to me that perhapd the difference between complete strangers and those they don't trust is the way they approach us. Complete strangers don't walk directly at us, don't keep constant eye contact and their body language would suggest they aren't interested in us. Those people I know but the dogs don't trust would walk directly at us, keep eye contact and with body language saying I'm coming at you. In other words how you re told you should and shouldn't approach a nervous dog. Makes sense. So far I have tested my theory on 10 complete strangers and the dogs have not reacted. It's not easy but thanks to my natural charm and friendly disposition Ive managed to get them to slow down or even stop and still no reaction. I now need to test it on those I know. Would it sound weird if I ask these people to walk side ways down the road ? When we've met them and I've had chance to ask them to stand still while we approach the dogs don't bark so there might be something in it. More tests needed. ;D So fellow BATters keep working on those BATing averages unbelievably I think we might just be proof it works. : ;D ;D ;D
Re: BAT tips Well done Jen , all your hard work and dedication is working for sure, so pleased for you and the dogs too I`v also proved that in a more minor way with Millie , distraction with a ball works wonders , we were at the beach this morning, quite a few other dogs around but she never gave them a second glance as I had a ball in my pocket , so even just the promise of a throw is good enough for her , so pleased for you Jen
Re: BAT tips Thank you Kate. I still don't like admitting how well we are doing incase I tempt fate. :. Daft I know. : Millie is so good. She's definitely hooked on that ball. As long as there's a ball in your pocket Millie will be by your side. Lovely (and not stinky like fish treats.) ;D
Re: BAT tips Jen, I have total admiration for what you have achieved with Scott and Scout and I thank you for starting this thread and sharing your knowledge as it has helped us with Charlie and one day we hope to have a 'normal' dog : : : : xx
Re: BAT tips Jen you truly are proof the BAT works but also that preserversance does too.I credit your advice with our greatly improved 'look at me' that gets me past interesting / barking dogs safely and in the least embarrassing fashion!thankyou If it's people you know ,they will be more than happy to help you I am sure ,especially people who know how hard you are working ....keep the updates coming x
Re: BAT tips Thank you Helen and thank you Angela. I'm so glad this thread is helping. Sometimes I feel like I'm waffling on and it's getting boring but it helps me see that we have made progress as well. : I've always wanted a 'normal' dog as well Helen. . One day. ;D I've just read Turid Rugass 's book about calming signals. It's very interesting but I've yet to work out how I can put it into practise with my two. ??? I keep yawning at them. It seems to calm scout but slightly freaks Scott which isn't supposed to happen. :-\ I now know why my two react worse when people crouch down to there level. That position is supposed to help by making the person less dominant so ive never understood why my two get worse. However it also means the person is then at eye level making direct eye contact which is too much for some nervous dogs like mine :. Shortening the eyes is a calming signal when a person is standing upright there eyes look shorter than if they are at the same level as the dog.
Re: BAT tips [quote author=Jen link=topic=4934.msg88390#msg88390 date=1402818858] I've just read Turid Rugass 's book about calming signals. It's very interesting but I've yet to work out how I can put it into practise with my two. ??? I keep yawning at them. It seems to calm scout but slightly freaks Scott which isn't supposed to happen. :-\ [/quote] I loved this book! I mainly have fun with it by seeing how far I can influence Charlie by yawning, closing my eyes, etc. I can get him to go to sleep at times. His response is quite unbelievable, to the extent it has become a bit of a party trick with him and my friends all lick their lips and shorten their eyes, and he makes his own eyes go all soft, and puts his head on his paws and snoozes. ;D ;D ;D The other thing it is useful for is to observe his body language better (he wags his tail regardless, so that's no help) so I can understand when he is stressed, and to understand his interactions with other dogs. I think it's also given me a good insight into what Charlie sees when he sees another dog, and I'm better at coming to the right conclusion about nice to play with/let's go around the same time Charlie does. Sorry, I'm gushing! I do like the book!
Re: BAT tips I've found eye narrowing and slow blinking effective. But slow walking and crouching down low near the dog - some dogs just seem to find that incredibly weird. Casual, relaxed, fluid movements, smiling, blinking, greeting the human, not leaning forward, letting the dog come to you - those seem to help with nervousness.
Re: BAT tips Interestingly, one of Sophie's tell-tale signs that she is anxious is yawning. Admittedly, she yawns when tired too ;D but in certain situations when she is feeling stressed, I notice that she does this, it has always been a "tell".
Re: BAT tips It is a very interesting book and explains a lot that I'd noticed but didn't really understand. Im now going around saying ' that's a calming signal, is that a calming signal or just a stretch ? ' ;D [quote author=Oberon link=topic=4934.msg88394#msg88394 date=1402819694] Casual, relaxed, fluid movements, smiling, blinking, greeting the human, not leaning forward, letting the dog come to you - those seem to help with nervousness. [/quote] The big question how do I get strangers to do this with out being carted off by men in white coats ? ;D I've also been making the OH yawn. He gives me that look but does it and it works. ;D
Re: BAT tips Just been doing calming signal observations on our big walk. They certainly do a lot more than they did before I started this thread. They are licking their lips left,right and centre. As we were crossing the canal a couple were walking towards us at 90 degrees along the tow path. S&S looked at them for a few seconds turned back to face front and licked their lips. CALMING SIGNAL. They used to just keep looking not daring to look away incase they came after us and I'd either have to stop until the people had passed or pull the dogs. We also met the giant schnauzer and poodle who don't like us on a very narrow part of our lane. This was a veritable medley of calming signals. Scout licked his lips and looked at me. Scott slowed, lowered his body position, licked his lips and looked at me. Fishy treats all round. ;D. If I could just get them to do that with humans we'd be sorted. :-\ I'm wondering if I should start to mark and reward all calming signals That I spot ? At the moment I'm only rewarding those in high stress situations. Is it just a case of marking and rewarding the flick of the tongue or whatever calming signal it might be ? I guess it is. I think perhaps I'm making it more complicated in my head than it actually is. :
