Re: BAT tips Thank you both. I'm not sure what people will think if I'm walking towards them licking my lips julie but hey I'll give anything a go. As I've said before if they think I'm nuts they might keep away. The way cuillin responds to you now debsie is what I'm hoping Scott and scout will end up doing. It's kind of the same idea I've had. At least I know it's not a daft idea and it's worked for cuillin so there's a chance it might work for Scott and Scout. Fingers crossed. : It's worked with their reaction to other dogs. They automatically look to my hand for a treat when they see a dog coming and nudge my hand if there's no treat there. I'm hoping I can get a similar behaviour with people. The thing is they have more of a problem with people than dogs. They respond and react differently to people which is why I'm trying a slightly different approach by using the look at me cue. Also with people I will need to keep upping the anti so we can get closer and closer and maybe touching to help with the vet situation. I'm looking very long term now of course. :. One step at a time.
Re: BAT tips Jen, I would continue with the approach you described on the previous page - that is, using the technique you need to to keep them sub-threshold in each different situation. Don't feel that you need to adopt a purist BAT approach I think having a few compatible tools in your toolbox is a good thing. Lip licking is a good behaviour. But I think I'd probably try to choose one behaviour (ie. looking at you) and reward that. Keep it simple for the dog. If they start displaying other positive behaviours then I'd just take that as a sign that it's all working. But keep consistently rewarding the target 'look at me' behaviour.
Re: BAT tips Thanks Rachael. That's my plan to keep reinforcing the 'look at me' behaviour and hopefully in stressful situations they will start to look at me automatically rather than resort to panic barking. I will try and use the functional reward of distance from the trigger before a treat if possible but if it's not practical I will reinforce with high value treats. Just hope I've got it right and it works. :
Re: BAT tips [quote author=Jen link=topic=4934.msg64533#msg64533 date=1396104539] I'm not sure what people will think if I'm walking towards them licking my lips julie but hey I'll give anything a go. [/quote] It would be better, anyway, if you could get the people walking towards Scott and Scout to lick their lips, look away and yawn! ;D Maybe you can leaflet the village asking for co-operation! ;D ;D ;D
Re: BAT tips Good idea Julie. ;D I could shout to them as they approach would they mind licking their lips. I've already got our neighbour at the end of the lane coming out and walking towards us when he sees us coming I'll just ask him to lick his lips or yawn at the same time. I'm sure people probably think I'm a bit nuts anyway especially when they see me walking in horizontal rain so it won't surprise them.
Re: BAT tips [quote author=Jen link=topic=4934.msg64750#msg64750 date=1396180259] I could shout to them as they approach would they mind licking their lips. [/quote] I've got this image in my head now... Jen: "good morning! would you mind licking your lips, yawning and looking away?! Stranger: "eh?" "I said: lick your lips! It's my dogs, you see..." Stranger: "what? you want to do what?" "LICK YOUR LIPS".... Switch to scene of police officer interviewing Jen....
Re: BAT tips BAT set up # 1 I hadn't really considered doing the BAT set ups, even though that's the best way to train it, because I didn't think it was very practical for me. Their main trigger and the one I really want to desensitise them to is people. They do however react to some dogs. It depends on the dog and the situation. Yesterday as we were setting off for a walk my sister came to see my mum with her dog bailey, a 12 month old cocker. It occurred to me my dogs are unsure of bailey and do react. Although not necessarily barking they get nervous and worked up unless they have a distraction like walking. I don't know why I hadn't thought to use him as a decoy before. ??? When we got back to the bottom of the garden I rang my sister to come out with bailey on lead and stand at the top of the garden. They spotted bailey at about 25metres. I cued look at me, they did, I clicked moved them away a few feet and gave them a tasty treat. We waited a few seconds then moved forward again. We zig zagged up the garden like this. When they started taking an interest I cued etc. By the time we got to roughly 12 metres they were less interested in bailey certainly less nervy about him. Scout was turning away himself and was just as interested in sniffing daffodils. Scott was still interested but in a more doggy interest way, sniffing towards him, not nervous. We continued and got to within 2 metres with no panic reaction. We stopped then I didn't want to push our luck. : It certainly worked I could see them relax despite the fact we were getting nearer to bailey. I reread the set up chapter of the book and it's not very clear on some things. It says you could resolve a basic behaviour problem in 20 setups but doesn't say how long a setup session should last ? Also it doesn't say you need to use different decoys just different situations but surely they get used to the same decoy? I know dogs can't transfer skills but I'm hoping if the setups with a dog works and they learn how to calm themselves when stressed it might help with humans. It can't hurt anyway. :
Re: BAT tips Absolutely a great thing to do - nice work If possible, it would be good to get some humans to act as decoys, but it's an odd thing to ask...
Re: BAT tips Just thought I'd give you all an update on our progress or lack of it. : BAT for fear unfortunately is progressing slowly. We haven't had much opportunity to practise. We did well last week though. A couple we've been meeting since they were pups we're walking towards us. He's always tried to stroke S&S they've always barked so I thought good opportunity. I shouted to them and asked if they could stand still and we BATted them. S&S did very well. We got to a normal conversation distance with no barking in fact very little reaction at all. The dogs even lay down while we chatted and I explained why I'd shouted to them to stay still. . This is doing nothing to dispel the idea I'm nuts. We have had two not quite so good BAT with dogs this week. One this morning. Both times the other dogs were very reactive. I did as the book suggests when you've nowhere to go. I waited until the dogs locked on target then looked at me then moved up a driveway. Unfortunately this ment both times the dog suddenly appeared again as it passed us, both times on our side of the road. S&S pulled and grumbled although only once then sat calmly while the owners spoke even when their dogs carried on reacting. Why the owners stopped both times I don't know however I suppose that was actually good practise. I've decided I'm going to alter that BAT and not go up a drive. I think S&S are better when they can see the dog coming rather than when they are waiting for it to suddenly appear. I will either sit them on the verge or keep moving depending on the other dog. I'm never sure which is best to keep moving passed or have them sat and try and keep their attention with treats? BAT for excited greeting on lead is going very well I'm pleased to report. Every time I see a family member with S&S on lead I shout stand still and BAT them. We can now get to touching distance with everyone even OH without pulling and having to turn back. The touching bit is a bit of a challenge but as long as they go for under the chin the dogs remain on the ground. All in all I think we are making progress. It's very difficult to know though and frustrating. When you train a dog to sit or even fetch you can see it working and you can see progress. Trying to alter a behaviour progress is so minimal and slow it's hard to know if it's working or not. :-\
Re: BAT tips It sounds to me like you are making slow but steady progress Jen - good for you for sticking with it
Re: BAT tips [quote author=Jen link=topic=4934.msg71123#msg71123 date=1398519952] I'm never sure which is best to keep moving passed or have them sat and try and keep their attention with treats? [/quote] I can only comment from the point of view of excitement, still, sometimes it's relevant? In almost all cases with Charlie it's better to sit than carry on walking. I suspect this is partly that I'm a better handler if I'm stood still and focussed on the dog. It's also I think more clearly asking for one thing - sit and look at me just seems more obvious for Charlie. Rather than "walk nicely passed this dog while keeping your attention on me" which just seems much harder for him to achieve. The exception is when "we've lost it" and have a mad, excited lunge. Then the best thing is to walk in any direction so long as it's away from the source of excitement (which is also a negative for Charlie as he wants to go towards the excitement).
Re: BAT tips Some dogs do better walking past and some sitting. Walking past is possibly better for fear but try both and do the one that works most often. If your dogs only grumble when other dogs are lunging and barking at them then they are doing brilliantly in my book!! You are definitely making progress. Thanks for the update
Re: BAT tips Thank you all. Bit presumptuous of me to assume you'd want an update but writing it down helps me see any change even a little bit. Like you Julie I feel I handle them better if I have them sitting but as you've said Rachael I think moving might be better for fear so they aren't fixating on the dog coming towards them. ??? It also depends on the width of the road. On a narrow road I think it's better if I can get them up the verge a bit out of the way. Guess I'll have to take each situation as it comes. : [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=4934.msg71134#msg71134 date=1398526135] It sounds to me like you are making slow but steady progress Jen - good for you for sticking with it [/quote] Slow but steady wins the race right?
