In my quest to find my dog, I had a breeder visit yesterday. I'd been coming back to looking at this breeder for months now, so decided I should try to meet her before leaving for Spain. Up until now, I'd found it worrying that breeders I'd met with didn't really ask me any questions. I mean, didn't they care what type of home their puppy would be going to? Well, be careful what you wish for! Yesterday, I got GRILLED! First was the walk in the snow and ice for an hour. And the question: if you go in the hospital again, what happens to your dog? Then...if you DIE, what happens to your dog? Whew...well, there's that German bluntness that I'd been expecting but hadn't gotten on my prior breeder visits. While not a pleasant subject, it was in fact one I'd sorted out before even considering looking for another dog, so I told her my back up plan. Then came the grilling on my training philosophy, plus demonstrations with her dogs. Then explanations that I would be required to visit the puppies at least twice before taking one home ("yeah - try to keep me away", I thought) and that any point she could decide I wasn't good enough and call it off, which is why she doesn't accept deposits. I didn't mind any of this...heck, if I was a breeder, I'd do the same. Or worse. This is why I'm not a breeder...I'd simply keep all the puppies. I don't even think I would consider MYSELF good enough to keep my own puppies, if you know what I mean. Then it was back to her house. Out came all the records for all her dogs which I was meant to pore over in detail. And I mean ALL the records (genetic testing, pedigrees, show results) and ALL in German. I did a lot of putting on my very earnest face, nodding appreciatively, and not understanding a darn thing. That's ok - living in Germany, I'm used to that. Then came a packet (also in German of course) which she handed to me and said, "It would be easier if you just read this now and asked me any questions immediately." Ha! Me without my reading glasses (because I'm at that certain age where I need them but am still in denial that I need them so don't go outside the house with them) PLUS 30 pages in German to decipher. I wanted to say "Lady, I can do that, but you better pull out the sleeper sofa, because it's going to take me until tomorrow to get through this". Instead I said, "Oh, I'm kind of slow reader, maybe you could go over the highlights with me?" And we were off to the races. What specific kibble to feed. When precisely to vaccinate. Why not to neuter/spay. No letting the puppies on slopes until 12 months. No jogging until 18 months and only after hip and elbow x-rays. No letting the puppy ride home in the car in the back alone. No visitors to your house for the first week. No fluffy bedding as they may eat it. No tug of war. No more than 5 minutes a day retrieving. Whew! I thought she was kind of nuts, but again, I would be too in her place, so I appreciated her thoroughness. And then we got to the sticking point: I live in Spain for several months a year where there is this horrible thing called Leishmaniasis. To prevent this, you need a collar (90% effective) and/or the vaccine (85% effective). I hate using collars and am leery of vaccines, but I'd consulted with multiple vets and read through all the various studies and decided the possible side effects of both were an acceptable if unhappy trade off for preventing what is an un-curable disease. For my new puppy, after consulting with my vet, I'd planned on him being at least a year old before bringing him to Spain, to best minimise any possible side effects. For the breeder, it wasn't acceptable. She doesn't want a puppy of hers to be exposed to such a thing, even as a grown adult. I totally understood this and told her so, but I also said that I didn't think I could, in good faith, promise her that I would never again within the lifetime of my dog travel to Spain, France, or Italy. She said she'd have a think on it. From my side, I'm still looking at lots of options (including adopting a rescue in Spain), so it's not like this stopped me cold. She was a nice lady and it was an interesting experience. But after what ended up being a 4.5 hour visit, it did leave me shaking my head and thinking, "Girl, be careful what you wish for!". I have been to the mountain of a German-efficiency-level interrogation and lived to tell the tale! Oh, I also got to cuddle with three wonderful dogs for hours and hours, so that kind of took away any residual sting.
Wow......zer! That was intense for sure,you must have been exhausted when you left.....especially after having the raw reality of your mortality exposed to you ....,What will happen if you die? Hmmmmm reasonable if you were a few more decades older ! You could happily take a puppy from that lady at 8 weeks knowing that it has had the best of everything ....you've been very honest with her and respectful of her approach ,she couldn't police you and place any restrictions on your travels once the puppy was yours could she? Was it a lab Litter Emily? X
Most really good careful breeders I've met have boardered on the .......pathological ? They have their pups interest at heart and want to do whats best for them. I totally understand that but like you I can find a visit can be exhausting. Ive also had to discuss illness death factor which was hard but ok in the end . Just hope everything works out ok for you despite being grilled. I always feel really conflicted getting a pup until I get them home
Dexter is in our Will with our Wishes in the event of our joint demise...he has an amount settled for him too that should take care of his medical needs for the rest of his life
Yes, a Lab litter. Mum is chocolate, dad black and puppies will be black and yellow. And no, there wouldn't be any actual policing going on, though I wanted to be honest with her on the important bits (like the Leishmaniasis). I just kind of held my tongue on the lesser bits (such playing tug of war, which I think if used as a training tool can be fabulous). The "death" question wasn't really out of line (although a bit shocking when put so bluntly - but hey, that's Germany for you) as I'd told her that I'd be training the puppy as an assistance dog so for that reason she knew I have medical issues. And yes... totally agree that one of her puppies would indeed be as healthy as possible and have the best possible start in life!
Ditto. I took care of that for Brogan when I had surgery three years ago...all written out and signed!
Excellent! It's actually gratifying to hear of someone doing such a thorough job, even if it does put a stumbling block in your way. I can just imagine her, though - the Germans do do "severe" rather well One thing, though - I read up about the leishmaniasis vaccine for my two and I wasn't happy at all with the real lack of information I found. At least one of my local vets in Spain offers it, but I talked to my vet in Andorra and he didn't mince his words, telling me to stay well away because it kills far too many dogs. I need to look again at the research, but his vehemence certainly put me off! Any links you have would be really useful!
It was seriously exhausting. Just trying to keep up with the whirlwind German for nearly five hours would have done me in, but then there was the driving home in the dark in the midst of a mini snow storm - OK, it was just a flurry....but I'm from California and live in terror of driving in snow. I actually was perversely reassured by the fact she was the only breeder I'd seen so far that I actually WOULD get a puppy from, even if she decides she doesn't want one to go to me. I really did mean it when I told her I understood about the Spain thing. No hard feelings whatsoever as I myself have been deliberating over that issue and shared and respected her concerns. Next step in the dog search is visiting rescue dogs in Spain in two weeks, which will be a COMPLETELY different challenge!
Crikey, you were put through it but as others have said it is good to know breeders are cautious and careful about where their pups go. Our Molly's breeders gave us a pretty thorough grilling. We visited the pups 3 times before they were ready to leave their mum. Then just before Christmas, they visited us here to see how Molly is doing and bought her a bag of Fish-4-Dogs treats and a Christmas card Lovely folks and not that far away, we're lucky. Good luck in your search Emily_B, and all the decisions you've got to make.
I think for really good breeders, selling a puppy is ALMOST like putting one of your children up for adoption, that's why they are so very intense about it. I'm going through the same process in Germany Emily - luckily our working line world is smaller, I know a lot of people and being a trainer in the DRC opens doors. All four of the breeders with upcoming litters I have been seriously interested in have said they would be happy to let me have a puppy. I've narrowed it down to two, with one clear favorite... Emily, if you would like to pm me the name of the breeder you are interested in, I'd love to take a look.
The study I read which was most helpful was done on shelter dogs in Italy and Spain. It was a horrible to study to think about (they vaccinated 1/2 of large groups of dogs and then purposefully left them out at night in infected areas to see which ones got L.) but the results have consistent effectiveness (85%) and low rates of side-effects. It is interesting what your vet in Andorra said, because my vet in Cadiz was totally in favour of the vaccine. Yes, they could just be trying to sell me something, but after going to that vet for years I can honestly say that they always try the least invasive solution and could have charged me for a dozen things over the years that they didn't so I really feel they aren't "that sort" of vet. Whether they are right or not is another issue, but they really believe the vaccine is beneficial. After much deliberation and worry, I did decide to have Brogan vaccinated. He had absolutely no side-effects, not even the lethargy or stomach upset 2-3 days post injection that is the most reported side effect. I certainly never heard of death being a possible side effect, or I would NOT have had him vaccinated. I'll have to look into it more again before considering it for another dog. Here's the study mentioned above: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191955/ Another good summary: http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index....232/vet_med_000234.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058008d7a8
I agree! I was more shocked that the other breeders I've seen DIDN'T put me through the inquisition. Even if I don't get a puppy from this lady, I was vastly cheered by her thorough approach. Done!
I see the inquisition as a right of passage. My last breeder was worried about my illness but she never regreated it. She breed a wonderful dog in Rory and can understand her wanting the best for him.
Wow, it would have been pretty nerve wracking going through the interrogation, I mean, breeder visit . I have often thought about the fine line between the wishes of the breeder and your ultimate decision as the owner of the dog (once you've bought it of course).
Sounds like a fun day out! We were also grilled by our breeder. Altho it didn't translate into her grilling the breeder of the male she used. A few years later she had a fallout with Snowie's dad's breeder (who considers herself the top of the top - there is SO much politics!) over the dad's medical records after Snowie's brother's owner (a vet) looked into them and found them wanting. I always think a good thing is to see previous litters and speak to those owners. Would this breeder be willing to give you some names and phone numbers of people who have bought her puppies in years gone by?
Wow - I bet you were exhausted after that! I like German bluntness, they are very like us (UK Northern bluntness) Now then, what if she comes back and says 'yes, you can have one'? ...
Wow, sounds like an exhausting, but informative day. If only all breeders would be a bit more blunt it would reduce the amount of pups being given up. Has she got a litter planned? Will you say yes if she offers you one?
Then I have my own decisions to make. She has a litter planned, but they will be ready to go to their homes in April, which is two months before I return to Germany. Which would mean me finding a new place to live in Germany and trying to negotiate my way out of a work event that I have in Ireland in May - because there is no way I'd leave a puppy for a week just after bringing him home. I'd also need to visit the puppies at least twice, which is not really an issue (I could fly in from Spain) except for the fact that in a perfect world I'd like to visit them way, way more than only twice. Also it will be a black/yellow litter and I'd really like to have at least a chance at a chocolate, though I know that's not so important and I would honestly be happy with either color. Whew! Plus I've got my shelter visits planned in Spain in two weeks. That experience may convince me that a rescue is the way to go, or it may do the opposite - convince me that I should indeed go with a very responsible breeder. Oh, and someone I know with a Rottie who just had pups chose this morning to flood my inbox with pics of her two week old puppies. And I was doing so well in my efforts to be in recovery from Rottweiler addiction... So...um... I guess you could say LOTS of decisions coming up. However, IF this breeder decides she is OK with the Spain thing and IF I decide that getting a purebred is best for me, then she is definitely the best possibility I've seen so far. Anyone would be very lucky to have a pup from her.
What I'm wondering is.......how do you get any work done right now? This puppy hunting business is a full time plus job I don't envy you. I am an absolutely awful decision-maker.
I know! It has kind of turned into a full time "hobby". Luckily I work part time and very brazenly tell my boss, "Nope, not going to be here on Friday because I have a puppy visit." She thinks I'm nuts but as long as I get my work done - even if it happens at 10pm on a Sunday - she doesn't really care. I'm horrible with decisions. I can't tell you how many things I own 2-3 of the same just in different colors just because I couldn't decide on the "right" color in the store. This is why going to the shelter in Spain is terrifying...I'm so in danger of coming out with five dogs. That's one reason the breeder option seems like it could be a bit better for me. At least the breeder with NOT let me walk away with the whole litter because I can't decide! But still going to the shelter because I just can't help myself. Glutton for punishment.
