My puppy is about 15 weeks old and has been cleared by the vet to meet other dogs. She is about 10 kg, or 22 lbs. I have taken her to local parks a couple times, and overall she seemed to have a great time meeting and playing with the other dogs. However, she displayed some concerning behavior, and I’m hoping for some advice. She loves all people but is at first a little nervous (although interested) approaching other dogs. After a subtle greeting with another dog she’ll start playing a little chase and has a ball. However, if the other dog is bigger and gets a bit physical, she will whine, squeal and bark in a high pitch. Same thing goes for a dog of equal or lesser size if it gets too physical and barks at her first. Most dogs respect this and ease up, and mine will go back to playing if the other dog tones down a bit. She’ll even approach a dog who previously made her squeal, looking to play, but only once she’s comfortable. In other words, roughhousing won’t deter her for very long. On one occasion, when more dogs showed up after she was getting along just fine with two others, she tended to sit by my legs much of the time and she never got completely in the fray, which I was fine with. One of the new dogs was quite large and running around like lightning. During all of this she enjoyed chasing me, playing with just the two of us. And if only one or two dogs came by in a non-threatening way to play with her, she was fine. But when the really big and fast dog come nearby she hid between my legs until the coast was clear, which again, didn’t seem to do any sort of lasting trauma, because she was eager to go again once the tone came down to her level. If there are dogs that are a real problem for her, e.g., won’t leave her alone to collect herself, I separate them, and try to have her play with a more friendly dog on the sidelines and then leave on a good note. I don’t think she is having bad experiences overall, and she still shows a tentative interest in any other dog she notices. So . . . Is she still too young to be exposed to larger groups of other dogs? Should I restrict her only to more controlled settings with just one or two other dogs? Is the high-pitch squealing something I should act on right away to remove her completely from situations, or can I continue with letting her retreat to between my legs as needed as she gradually acclimates herself? Any other advice would be much appreciated. I can explain more about her behavior if it would help.
She sounds pretty squared away to me. Likes to play but knows what to do when she is intimated. As long as most of the time she enjoys playing and running, I would not do much different. If she is really intimated and can't get away I would step in. She will get more confidant as she gets bigger and older. Most pups act this way, and most older dogs understand pups and aren't too hard on them. If there are dogs at the park that really pick on your pup, I would leave and come back another time. You may get some different answers from our UK members, since they don't generally like dog parks as much as we do on this side of the pond.
Thanks @Ski-Patroller , She has been to the dog park twice and that’s where another slightly bigger dog, also a puppy, just wouldn’t take it easy so I had to eventually leave after getting her to end on a positive note. The other park near my house I prefer a lot more. It’s much larger and there is field near the expansive dog walking section that’s unofficially “off leash” by common practice. It’s set off on two sides by forest and on one by a large lake opposite the path area. The owners there seemed much more respectful and had better trained dogs, and there’s always room to create distance and do some fetch on our own. The only negative is that there is an entrance fee on weekends and during the summer.
Any time she squeals, she is having a 'bad' experience with other dogs. These experiences are aversive enough that she has learnt to avoid the sort of dogs she associates with it. This is all a sign of fear. At some point, if squealing or moving away don't work or are not possible, she could well move onto aggression to escalate the 'communication'. And so an aggressive dog is made... Please be very protective of your dog, if you are going to attend a dog park. Many damaging behaviours can be learnt there and frankly, I would avoid them. https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/blog/Dog-Parks-Are-Dangerous-21816-1.html
@Jo Laurens , Thanks. The squeal definitely tells me she's in distress, so I do move quickly to comfort her. With one dog, for example, she squealed the first two times, but the other dog was just bigger and wasn't really being rough at all. The other dog backed off after the squeal, and I played with the other dog for a little for mine to watch see. then mine went back up to her a few seconds later to initiate play. The two played totally fine for a good 5 minutes after that with no squealing. Then there are other dogs where I can tell they likely won't control themselves, so I keep mine away. So my question for you is whether you think it's okay to try to overcome squealing at first if it seems the other dog would to "get it" and my dog will get over it and still want to play, or should I be much more controlling with these interactions? The only time I can really guarantee a squeal-free experience is with a family member's older beagle, who will only play for a minute or two before wanting to be left alone. On the one hand I want her to socialize with other dogs. I want her to see them so I can condition her to stay with me until I give permission to greet. And on the other I don't want to risk a traumatic experience. I like that in at least one instance she's gotten over the squealing, gained some confidence, and learned how to have a good time. But at the same time I don't want to put her in situations time and again where she's likely to squeal. Maybe you have some suggestions for how to ease her into socializing. And as for parks, the one open field in the forest by the lake with extensive dog walking trails seems great to me. It's right near my house and I have the option to keep distance or approach other dog owners. The dogs there seemed well trained and it was nice to see her watch other dogs obey their owners. The "dog park" at the other park near me does seem a bit chaotic, and I'm more content to bring her to other parts of that park if I go there again. So I'm wondering if you have suggestions for alternatives to dog parks. The leash laws where I am are cut and dried, and most owners who break the rules to let their dog off-leash do so in set-off areas with a lot of space, out of public view, like the field I mentioned.
I would really recommend on being heavily involved in force-free training wherever you live, where you will meet other likeminded people who are interested in dog behaviour and who are going to act quickly and anticipate problems before they occur. I would avoid all situations where she may squeal. Assess the other dog, how boisterous it is, how large it is, what breed it is and therefore what its play style is likely to be and determine whether to allow your puppy to meet the other dog. Dog parks tend to create bullies or fearful and reactive dogs. It is not normal or natural for a dog to be thrown together with a bunch of strange dogs and to enjoy it on a daily basis. You don't see the effects of these experiences immediately - if there are any effects, you will see them towards the end of the first year and the behavioural issues then appear to have happened out of the blue - but they haven't, the seeds were sown early on... I used to have a puppy play time during my puppy training classes, in the last 15 mins of each class - so I am well used to supervising dogs during play, judging which dogs to match with which and so on. I would never have more than 3-4 dogs off at once, because I can't supervise or react quickly enough. I am 100% watching what is happening with full attention and determining if everyone is happy in the interaction. Signs of not being happy early on, are dogs persistently running away whilst another dog is chasing, dogs putting tails down or ears back and curving away at the sight of another dog approaching, dogs showing signs of wanting to disengage - any of these, and I would intervene and take hold of the approaching dog and ask the owner to leash that dog. That dog may well play fine with another dog, in a few minutes, but this particular dog it was approaching, didn't want the interaction. It would definitely never get to the point of squealing - I would have failed hugely in my role, running the class, if it had reached that point. Unfortunately you simply can't do this with other people's dogs in a dog park, so it becomes a very unsafe setting IMO. It is not possible to adequately protect your puppy from experiences there. Instead, you need to seek out likeminded knowledgeable dog folk and deliberately set up play sessions with puppies/dogs you both determine to be well suited - at each other's houses or in safe areas they are allowed off-leash.
I am a complete subscriber to force-free training. I do at least a few minutes every day, sometimes more. I observed a friend's group session where the trainers used remote collars, but after reading a lot about it decided it wasn't worth it. As far as I can tell my dog Minka is making great progress. The only force or "negative reinforcement" I've ever used has been in two respects. First, I've squeezed the skin on the back of the neck about three times when it was extremely important I got her to drop whatever was in her mouth at the time. However, ever since she's become fairly proficient at "drop it," I haven't done that again and don't plan to. The other is with removing leash pressure, but I think that's fairly ubiquitous and unavoidable. I'm extremely careful and even then the primary focus is on rewarding with treats, not just letting out slack. Really, it's Minka making the decision to stop pulling and walk back, to relieve the tension she caused by walking too far ahead. And I sometimes give a very slight jerk followed by the sit command, too. But still, the vast majority of time I'm training heel and the like off-leash anyway; I just like to get her acquainted with walking with the leash for as brief of stints as possible. I'd love to hear your thoughts on all of this. My goal right now is to continue to get acquainted with the owners and dogs I like that I meet at the regular open-field park. Hopefully then we'll have times I know where there will be other dogs mine can play comfortably with. I'm still in the trial-and-error phase in figuring out what options exist in my area. What you said about a dog always running but never chasing really stands out to me. I can definitely tell Minka is not anxious when she starts trading roles in the chase game, which I love to see. I guess moving forward I'll try to limit greet-and-plays to smaller groups of only 1-2 other dogs after a careful approach and feeling out the other dogs for myself. It's difficult sometimes when other dogs just show up out of nowhere, but thankfully I can find space for separation at the parks near me. I always ask the owners first if we can "say hi," and I get a bad vibe when other owners, especially those with very large or excitable dogs, just assume they can barge in unannounced. I find myself agreeing more and more that the designated "dog parks" are usually bad news. The fenced-in setting and the types of dogs and owners that show up make me cringe. There's a lack of supervision, respect for other dogs, etc. Some owners don't even pick up after their dog even though there's a public baggie dispenser there. If there are only one or two dogs there, I might feel it out. But if there's a mosh pit I can't understand why anyone would want to get involved.
I think it depends on the purpose (your objective) in doing this. If it is about safety in the moment (ie risk of dog actually swallowing something which could cause harm), then grabbing the dog in an emergency, if it prevents this, could be seen to be necessary. But if this is a deliberately applied neck-grab to cause an aversive, which is making the dog want to drop, then it's not force-free training. (I know you said you don't plan to do it again - but if the same set of circumstances that led to you doing it previously, reoccur, then unless you have an alternative plan you are likely to do it again...) Instead, far better to start training your Drop cue way before you ever need it so it is highly charged up, when you actually need it. I like Chirag's method for training Drop: It's not really 'unavoidable'. Many of us use harnesses just for that very reason: Even with a flat collar, a puppy will often charge ahead into it and give themselves a correction which can be as strong as something a handler has deliberately done. So force-free trainers use harnesses so that the collar can never be an inadvertent aversive in this way. The harness is really just a means of ensuring safety and not a training device. You might want to have a read of this link: https://dogmantics.com/is-it-harmful-to-attach-a-leash-to-your-dogs-neck-2/ Minka should not be deciding to stop pulling 'to relieve the tension' - if that is a motivator, then you're not training using force-free methods. And, whatever method is being used, jerking her first before giving the Sit cue, doesn't make any sense. What is the jerk for, if you haven't asked her to Sit? (Is she supposed to be psychic and know that you want her to sit before you've even asked her to?!) If you find that you are jerking her to get her attention or focus, then attention, eye contact and focus and engagement are the things to work on - marking with clicker when they happen, and then reinforcing. It's best to work on these separate to heelwork to strengthen them loads...
I’ve been looking into harnesses, so I may pick one up today or tomorrow. However yesterday at the park when I let the leash drag and then just took it off completely, Minka showed absolutely amazing progress walking in heel with attention on me, even around a lot of people and other dogs. I got multiple people coming up to me in amazement asking how I got such a young pup to do that, which was nice. I just keep clicking and treating when she does the right thing, especially eye contact that overcomes distractions. I hate even using the leash but sometimes I have to just because of law “enforcement” by me, or if walking around the neighborhood instead of the park, where there are moving cars around and I just can’t take the risk. I do over 90% of walking at the park anyway, but I do want to get her accustomed to dealing with cars whizzing by so she at least has been trained in that situation. She rarely pulls on the leash, and if she does at this point it’s no longer a deliberate pulling away for anything more than a split second, but even when she does I hate the pressure. Off leash she’ll dart ahead a bit further but then pause, after which I say “look at me.” I’m trying to get her to make eye contact automatically and not dart to begin with, even before I make a decision whether to command a release. We’re getting there, but this is understandably difficult to get perfect immediately. She’s made great progress with drop it, thanks for the video. I’ve been working on extending duration for drop it/leave it because sometimes she goes right back to it despite my best efforts to draw her excitement elsewhere. Slowly but surely . . . The jerk isn’t really so much of a jerk but a very light tug, when she’s already standing still and there’s complete slack. I tug before the sit command so that I’m basically introducing a new “sit” cue for whenever there is pressure. Ideally I want to prevent pulling whereby every time she exhausts the leash she realizes she has to sit, look at me, and either wait for me to catch up to walk again or come back to heel position. The only other scenario for her with leash tension is if I’m still in motion but we’re starting to go in slightly different directions, so I say “this way” to redirect her in the direction I’m going. I try to say “this way” before the leash gets taught, but in real life sometimes a little tension is going to happen. So far she seems to be responding well to all this. Anyway, the real impasse I’m at with her training is for her to “get it” (that part is fine) and then hold it in her mouth for duration. I think I poisoned “hold”/“hold it” so I’m moving foreword very slowly and carefully with “keep” now. Thanks, @Jo Laurens
Do you mean - teaching the retrieve? Teaching the retrieve is quite a complex behaviour because it's really a sequence or a chain of behaviours - not one behaviour. And there is so much to teach a little pup, that I would really not focus on the retrieve until you get to 5-months-ish... For now, just work on sit, heel, down, focus, drop, crate training (in and out), recall (whistle and voice) etc etc.... When you do come to teach the retrieve, I'd recommend a method called the clicker retrieve. There is info on this forum about it, somewhere, and also various videos and info online....
Yes, these are all parts of a proper retrieve technically. She picked up on the basic idea of fetch pretty quickly and does it really well except for holding it in her mouth until cued to drop it. She can stay, wait and watch until fetching on cue, too. From my reading I understand that typically the best way to get it solid and refine it is to back chain the behavior, and I understand how that works. That's why I'm interested in progressing with having her hold it in her mouth since it's near the end of the whole set of behaviors. All the other basics we've been working on as well and have been pleased with it, all with the clicker. She is coming on five months now. I'm in no rush to have the fetch perfectly refined, but I'm having trouble getting over the initial "hold it" or "keep it" hump.
Well, it's not an easy thing to train for a novice trainer - because it requires you to proof the hold against food. This can only be done if you have done all the previous stages of the clicker retrieve first. You should be able to lure the dog around, following the treat, until the click - when they are allowed to drop:
