Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log A very interesting morning with Casper...he is a surprising dog! Both dogs out early (6.30am) along to Yate common, where at the time there are fewer dogs around, the odd cyclist on the road to nowhere...and some brave early morning joggers. The road to nowhere is a part built dual carriageway...the tarmac is now worn...and this splits the common in two. It is ideal for lead walking and also because there are two wide carriageways, we can use this to help Casper, we can control the distance between other dogs by crossing onto the other side. This road to nowhere has links to a footpath, so cyclists use this to avoid the main road, so it can get a bit busy! Casper - we continue to work on his reactivity...or a better way to put it his level of excitement on lead. So this means half the walk for both dogs is on lead. As soon as Casper scopes out another dog usually before we have, we have to be quick to capture his attention, and help Casper manage the situation by switching his attention to us to get a high value treat, this distaction is enough to calm him, and when he notices the same dog again, he is less excited, therefore I am not being dragged towards the dog by an excited, barking and very strong black labrador! In the same vein we are working on the meet and greet, rewarding even the slightest pause, allows him to think, and then he is less likely to bolt towards the other dog (at the speed of lightening..) This approach is going to take time, I suspect a number of months, but so far we have seen progress. Today, he was much better, managed to recall Casper back from I guess in his eyes something very peculiar...a very colourful..floating umbrella...just beyond the hedges, obviously something he had never noticed before and really wasn't sure about. An interesting meeting off lead was with 3 very large working type collies, now these have a reputation with other walkers for being reactive. Benson avoids them. They bark and snarl at most other dogs, so no fun for Benson. With Casper it is a very different story, he has met them before, so when he runs over I am not worried. He runs over, stops 10 feet or so from them. He stands stock still. Tail up but not wagging, ears forward. No barking. They approach him tentatively. Casper stays perfectively still, while all three dogs gather around him sniffing, but Casper doesn't sniff...then one of them becomes playful (an invitation..)and all the tails start wagging, a minute of play and then Casper comes back to us. Very, very interesting...wish I had videoed the encounter. Anyhow, a couple more on lead opportunities to work on excitement with one cyclist, two more dogs and one jogger...all successfully managed by Casper! Benson - half the walk on lead, very simple and just working on rewarding attention with treats. Few recalls with him, but again kept these simple turnabouts....or recall whilst running in the opposite direction. His recall was snappy, on lead pretty darn good, with no pulling to speak off. Only the occasionally drag over to a tree for a sniff, as this was a loose lead walk that was to be expected, but not the frenzied, excited pulling we have experienced before. Benson played in the water for a bit..couple of water retrieves which he loves! Before we head back. The next stage with Benson is to introduce some props on our walks, we do use dummies etc for training at home in the fields but not on our longer walks. So something to consider next, thinking maybe the whipit?
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Oooh, my best friend lives in a house right next to Yate common (in Welstead Avenue). I'll look out for you and the boys next time we go and stay Sounds like Casper speaks "reactive collie"!
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log [quote author=snowbunny link=topic=9614.msg146045#msg146045 date=1424945257] Oooh, my best friend lives in a house right next to Yate common (in Welstead Avenue). I'll look out for you and the boys next time we go and stay Sounds like Casper speaks "reactive collie"! [/quote] Wow! That really is close...she lives just 5 mins away from us, we live just outside Westerleigh
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=9614.msg146043#msg146043 date=1424944852] The next stage with Benson is to introduce some props on our walks, we do use dummies etc for training at home in the fields but not on our longer walks. So something to consider next, thinking maybe the whipit? [/quote] What do you want to achieve? There are several uses for whipit. When just out walking, whipit can be translated into "pocket whipit" to be used as a reward, but it's a sort of side effect of the main use of the game. The game is about training the skill of self control. In order to do this, you build up the value of the toy used in whipit. Once you have done that, you have a way of working with a dog with a very high level of arousal but the source of that controlled by you. A side effect is that if you stick the toy on a bit of string, and put it in your pocket on walks, it makes a fantastic play reward. But you have to keep playing the main game to maintain that.
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9614.msg146536#msg146536 date=1425117312] [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=9614.msg146043#msg146043 date=1424944852] The next stage with Benson is to introduce some props on our walks, we do use dummies etc for training at home in the fields but not on our longer walks. So something to consider next, thinking maybe the whipit? [/quote] What do you want to achieve? There are several uses for whipit. When just out walking, whipit can be translated into "pocket whipit" to be used as a reward, but it's a sort of side effect of the main use of the game. The game is about training the skill of self control. In order to do this, you build up the value of the toy used in whipit. Once you have done that, you have a way of working with a dog with a very high level of arousal but the source of that controlled by you. A side effect is that if you stick the toy on a bit of string, and put it in your pocket on walks, it makes a fantastic play reward. But you have to keep playing the main game to maintain that. [/quote] Looking at ways to develop impulse control, that will be something to work on with both dogs, but in different ways, as impulsiveness translates into different behaviours with Benson and Casper
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Whipit is good for that, but I find it needed a great deal of concentration to establish, so couldn't do it on a walk - although just as a fabulous game it can be used anywhere. But if you want to really use it for impluse control, a quiet, flat area with no distractions is ideal. Did you see the Devon Dogs vid of it?
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Today..well the last couple of days.. Casper: Oh what a superstar you are! We are as much as possible both of us taking the dogs out..so the main training walks are very early, the mornings are lighter so this is really helping. Still keeping things very simple with Casper, and working on meeting other dogs either both on lead...or one of the dogs on lead. Well Casper is really making inroads. Over the last 2 days he has been far calmer. Today, at the beginning of the walk...(when he is most excited..) he spotted another couple of dogs on the path ahead....then looked at us, so we C&T. He continued to walk calmly..and again looked at us, this is a real breakthrough! Casper I think has sussed that if he looks back at us, when there is a distraction ahead, he gets a whooping super doooper treat! What a clever boy. Off lead there is also a tremendous improvement, today was a great example. Both dogs have some off lead sniff time. Casper scopes out another dog (about 70 metres away across the common) He looks at the dog...looks at us...then runs back to us! Fabulous! This shows really good control. I am sure every walk won't be like this, but we are going to enjoy the moment nonetheless. Benson Keeping things really simple, his nice loose lead walking has come back, which is fab, plus he is positioning himself nicely on our left when off lead walking, choosing to have a wander, but not far, then checking in. We are giving him less off lead time, and working on a snappier recall, but also making sure that recall is going to work. We are focusing on either walking Benson solo..or joint walks (me and OH and both dogs. We finished off with a little self control exercise. The common was very quiet, so I set off leaving OH to stand still. Then about 50 metres away placed both dogs in a sit stay, they could see my hubby, and I could tell they were waiting for him to recall them. The point of this exercise was for them to control their keenness to run to him, so put them in sit...then stood about 6 feet away, the first atempt had Casper breaking and flying towards OH at breakneck speed! ;D The second attempt I think he worked it out, and they both waited until the release cue, then haired off towards hubby! Great fun was had by all, and the chocolate cruiser even managed a sort of half hearted sprint!
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9614.msg146624#msg146624 date=1425150490] Whipit is good for that, but I find it needed a great deal of concentration to establish, so couldn't do it on a walk - although just as a fabulous game it can be used anywhere. But if you want to really use it for impluse control, a quiet, flat area with no distractions is ideal. Did you see the Devon Dogs vid of it? [/quote] Not yet, will have to view on my ipad (lap top is playing up...boo) looking forward to more investigation though, and certainly something to think about on our driveway for example which is long, or one of the fields. Hopefully the weather will be improving, days getting longer I will have more time for these short training sessions. It's quite a challenge with the 2 of them, as have to do these separately. Casper has also worked out how to open the front door, so the last couple of sessions have been joined by Casper....delighted with himself he has escaped once again. Yep have to buy a new front door... :
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log The vid is really great - I don't use whipit enough, which I regret. My garden in London is tiny (but pretty) and stuffed full of large shrubs, so don't have much space. And I can't use it on the Common, every dog within a mile comes to have a nosey! I can use it when I get to Cornwall, but that's not all that often these days.
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9614.msg146630#msg146630 date=1425152794] The vid is really great - I don't use whipit enough, which I regret. My garden in London is tiny (but pretty) and stuffed full of large shrubs, so don't have much space. And I can't use it on the Common, every dog within a mile comes to have a nosey! I can use it when I get to Cornwall, but that's not all that often these days. [/quote] And work does have a habit of getting in the way! :
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Quick update: Casper - Huge improvement in off lead meet and greet, to the point I am not at all worried. If they are collies he gets hugely excited! (He loves collies...and they don't seem to have a problem with him) Vast improvement also with on lead meet and greets. He now scopes the dogs out...and in a lot of cases immediately checks in with us, he is starting to associate this with a high value treat which is brilliant! Hubby has also been helping out enormously, working with the clicker, so this consistent approach is really helping reinforce Casper new behaviours. Better with cyclists too...as long as they are not too close to him. Tbh if they are that close they deserve a bark! Slight twist with Casper is if a single man, without a dog is close by, Casper will react. It appears this may be only if I am walking Casper, not Marcus,however if the man has a friendly demeanour, ie responds to my "hello" this reaction dissipates immediately. So now I am saying "hello" to a lot of singe men it seems..... : Had a bit of a situation yesterday, the dogs were playing in the water by the large pond on the common. A man, appears, just wandering around, watching us. A low growl from Casper, so I put him straight on his new double ended lead attached to a perfect ft harness, sit on the bench with both dogs quietly settled beside me. The man then wanders off out of sight. I let the dogs off. The man reappears, again watching us and wandering aimlessly around, now nothing wrong in that, it was a lovely afternoon! Unfortunately Casper wasn't having any off it and runs towards him barking, I run after him, apologise like mad, and quickly clip Casper on lead, no harm done, although he might have jumped on his trousers as he was brushing himself down in a very irritated fashion... He ignores my apology and stalks off. I keep both dogs on lead and walk off in the other direction. Funny really, I didn't like the man either...something else to keep me on my toes nonetheless... : Benson This morning with both dogs was fun. In our fields and we just did some memory retrieves. Benson very excited as we got the fur dummies out, so we had lots of focus and engagement from Benson, checking in every nano second in case he missed me throwing one! ;D He is a different dog on our fields and wood. Probably because there are no other dogs, or dog scent. Whereas Casper gets very distracted by all the rabbit and deer scent, plus he loves to chase the foxes! We just worked on simple straight runs with both Benson and Casper, three good retrieves for each of them. Benson was very fast this morning, with clean delivery, no hoolies around the field with his prize! So we left it with just three, think though he had another good one left in him. We are going back to basics with dummy work as we have had to concentrate on other things with Benson, coupled with the fact we just haven't had the time! Going to take them both later to Snuff Mills, (dog central in places...) so should be interesting to see how they both get on!
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Sounds like great progress! Very good news about the bikes. Charlie can just get really interested in a people acting in an "interesting" way too. People need to learn to be more boring around dogs! ;D ;D ;D I run out of training time too...I'm sure my trainer thinks I do hardly anything between lesson. But I try really hard! Just not around to do several 5 to 10 minutes a day, I get one session a day, and that's got to include exercise too and that's it. Must try to be more effective.
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Sounds great Kate! You missed a good yoof club today I would have freaked out if i was walking the dogs and a random bloke appeared and was looking over, but then i am really paranoid!
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log [quote author=Fwhitt246 link=topic=9614.msg148005#msg148005 date=1425752795] Sounds great Kate! You missed a good yoof club today I would have freaked out if i was walking the dogs and a random bloke appeared and was looking over, but then i am really paranoid! [/quote] Really wanted to go to yoof club today...but hubby was at a Bee Convention.... Are you going next week Frankie??
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Wow Kate this all sounds really positive and you get to meet lots of single men too, everyones a winner You should be really proud of your boys xx
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Another update from the boys... Mostly work with the both of them on checking in off lead...with a view to reinforcing very brief or no interactions with other dogs. We working slightly differently on this with both dogs, as Casper is an older dog at 6 years old, a rescue with some issues around on lead interactions. Benson is 17 months old, an adolescent who now needs to learn that he doesn't have to interact with every dog that we meet on our walks. Benson moving to "say hello, say goodbye" with the cue "say hello" on the behaviour of Benson on lead leaning towards the other dog, as long obviously as everything appears OK from the other dog...allowing the briefest of interactions...followed by "say goodbye" the instant the attention is turned away from the the other dog coupled with a positive reinforcer. When this cue is solid, will move to the off lead scenario with the same cue. Had a great session at Yoof club with Benson yesterday, lots of observation work, more work on controlling interactions with the introduction of the "say hello and say goodbye" techniique as above. More work afterwards with the trainer and Casper, and a stooge dog working on meet and greet. When we first looked at Caspers response to strange dogs, we used stuffed dogs, so was great to be able to move onto the real thing1 So we worked on on lead calmly walking by with Casper on lead, then upping the arousal stakes, by having Casper on lead and the other dog being recalled, so Casper would be more excited by the other dog effectively running past him. This was at some distance initially,and moving closer, as you can imagine a dog being recalled close by to Casoer would've been a bit too much!
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Sounds good Kate sorry I missed you at yoof club, I was intending on going but then with Murphy's upset tum Anna thought it would be better if we left it this week
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Update: Casper - Working really hard on "checking in" off lead, to keep him quite close where we have more control, yet allowing him to see other dogs, and make the choice not to run over.(he looks across, looks at us, and gets a HUGE high value treat ) It is clear now that he feels compelled to rush over out of anxiety, and what we have learned is that Casper actually prefers not too if given the choice. I think it is a myth that all dogs like to meet other dogs and interact, some dogs do and some dogs don't We are also introducing just a little bit of retrieving on walks, just a rabbit skin ball, only maybe 10 metres. He is now relaxed enough on walks to enjoy bringing the ball back which is brilliant! Would not do these more that twice on a walk,(outside of our home environment) just gently and purely as fun for him. We think there could be some history attached to retrieving, and associated with punishment, so we are trying to be careful and not cause stress. Widgets Farm has helped us tremendously in helping us to understand Casper. Using their training field with other dogs, watching his behaviour, and other dogs has been an inspiration. Benson - Mainly our training efforts currently are around self control, and continuing to proof, proof proof....recall, on lead/ off lead walking. We are also working on making ourselves more interesting on walks, using fur tug toys, whipit, fur balls, the list is endless! I think this is working. The other day on a our one-to -one walk, we met 2 chocolate labs, flying into the common a minute after we had walked in, I sighed, thinking here we go, glanced down at one of the labs thinking what a coincidence, he has the same collar as Benson, then realised it WAS Benson, he hadn't run over, wow!!! He stayed close, actually the whole of the walk, I was really, really chuffed. I think that adopting Casper at the age Benson was (11months) probably didn't help his adolescent phase. So aiming to get to a more reliable and solid base before we revisit some other skills, hopefully late Spring early Summer, our plan is gundoggery fun with Benson, but we will see, he certainly enjoys agility so we may explore that further. It just that he really isn't the brightest labrador....just wants to be a playboy if you get my drift.. : A little snippet from our walk today at Westonbirt, our second visit and a hugely exciting place for both of them. OH is just rewarding both dogs for a voluntary check in. Benson just zooms in and out of the frame... ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SH8qL6CfCA&feature=em-upload_owner
Re: Benson and Caspers Training Log Well done Casper. Mega success considering all the Dachshund opportunity! Presumably Benson turned up eventually? ;D
