I`m sorry but its not for Lab Sam but for our little rescue terrier Flynn . He wasnt housetrained at all when we took him on, we knew this and were prepared for it . His background is sketchy as he was brought to England by the Blue Cross, he was on death row in an Irish pound after being picked up as a stray , he was only 8 months old when found wandering the streets in Ireland . He learned housetraining pretty quickly and soon began to ask , but in the five months we have had him, he still poops overnight in the kitchen . He is exercised well , has two meals per day when Sam eats, breakfast at about 7.30 and dinner at around 5 afternoon . He usually goes into the garden for a poop at about 7-8 evening and then is let out at around 11 for his last wee and poo with Sam . I get up around 6 and most of the time, he has gone again in the kitchen . He is a skinny little thing , was classed as thin when we took him and had been emaciated when in the Pound , he is wormed regularly and I do not over feed him, he has a massive appetite and it would be easy to over feed but I am strict with his regime . I am not cross with him when he has gone in the kitchen, he never ever does anything in the house apart from overnight, his poo is always firm and normal , am at a loss and now wondering if it is a metabolic disorder ?
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Hi Kate It's a tricky one, isn't it! If you are worried its probably worth letting the vet take a look. Have you tried getting up an hour early to see if he's clean then? If you knew when he was going, it might help you to work out why it happens....?
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Hi Sam , I have on odd occasions been up earlier and he has already done it , he seems to know that its wrong because he looks sheepish and hangs his little head which is heartbreaking , I think a trip to the Vets may be in order . They eat the same diet and Sam has been clean overnight since three months old so I cant see it being the food , I tend to think that his former life has affected his metabolism, just hope its something that can be fixed , thanks for your reply .
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Maybe it's something psychological rather than physiological, to do with his time in the pound or as a stray... Have you thought about putting him in a crate overnight? They really dont like pooping where they sleep, so that might work... but I can see it might take a bit of work getting him used to the idea of a crate after all this time. Might still be worth it though, not to have to do 'poo duty' every morning...
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? I can see your point Karen and if it were under different circumstances , I might try crating him, but he is such a pathetic little soul , he clings to Sam at night , they share Sams big cushion . I know it must sound like I am too soft but the little scrap has had such a diabolical start in life that I cant do it to him . We think that he has suffered terrible abuse in his former life , if either of us raise our voices, he hides . On the whole he is a very happy little dog now , all my training has been done with positive methods and love which he responds so well to and we think that given his time in the Pound, then a three day trip to the UK in a cage and then at the Blue Cross for three weeks for assessments and again in a kennel , he would be so miserable if we crated him at night . I think a trip to the Vets is in order to eleminate any medical reason and if all is clear , we will have to go back to the drawing board , thanks anyway
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Hi Kate, this is quite common, even in dogs that have been thoroughly housetrained using a crate and are then let out of the crate at night for the first time. If you think a crate would distress him how about crating them together? One big crate to share? Another solution I have used that has worked in the past is to switch rooms. So if he sleeps in the kitchen switch to a utility or hall, or bathroom. Anywhere with a washable floor will do. It may just be that the habit of going in the kitchen is too hard to break. A new room sometimes works Good luck Pippa
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Thanks for this Pippa , they currently have the run of the sitting room, hallway and kitchen at night . We never hear them moving about and usually settle down together in the sitting room on Sams cushion . Flynn always goes into the kitchen to do his overnight poo, always near the back door too so he is trying . I did think about a dog flap but will try moving them both into the kitchen together and see what happens and if it carries on , I will take him for a thorough Vet check . Thank you again for the replies, he is a dear little chap , I cant be cross with him :
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? He might be more likely to wait if he can't get into the kitchen would be my thought.... habits and all that. I would deny access the to place he has been pooing (i.e. kitchen) , and get up v v v early to pre-empt a poo. Then if that works, try and establish the clean habit while stretching the hours out. Bit like puppy training all over. Dogs like to poo in the same place each time. Bless them.
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? A dog flap sounds like a good idea if he's trying to get out. Poor little thing doesn't sound thrilled to be going in the kitchen. Good luck!
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? [quote author=bbrown link=topic=725.msg3588#msg3588 date=1347458143] A dog flap sounds like a good idea if he's trying to get out. [/quote] Have to disagree with you there... Unless there's something actually physically wrong, then little Flynn needs to learn NOT to go at night, and to find a way to make him change his habits. Of course we cant know, but perhaps it stems from something in the past, and he feels safer doing his business in the dark with no-one around... Fact is, poor Kate has to clear it up each morning! And while she no doubt does that with good grace, I bet it loses its charm after a while... ???
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? I wondered about that too , the separation anxiety as he is stuck to me like glue , although he doesnt seem to mind being left during the day , neighbours have told us that they never hear a sound from either of the dogs . We do know that he is very afraid of the dark though , another legacy of his former life maybe , so it could well be that he gets over anxious at night . Its so hard when you have no real background but thank you all for your imput, lots to think about .
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Hi Kate A bit late to join the conversation, anyway here's my two penn'orth. Maia started weeing at night we did all the same, late to bed, early to rise etc but it didn't seem to help initally. So vets it was, being a spayed bitch she was put on propelin on to tighten up the bladder which did help a bit but like Sam she knew it was wrong and got very worried so we tried a DAP defuser which calmed her down no end (almost horizontal!) and helped to break the habit, we don't need it anymore and we rarely have accidents. Maybe DAP might help Sam settle overnight? Good luck with whatever you do. Kerryn
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Sorry, end of a long day ???. I meant Flynn of course. Apologies to Sam!
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Thats alright Kerryn , I`m sure Sam doesnt mind I`ve had a chat with my lovely Vet this morning , he thinks that because of Flynns former life as a stray, he iss anxious which in turn has given him a high metabolism . He is ever such a happy little chap but does become very anxious in certain circumstances . He used to lunge and bark at cars all the time, out of fear but has now overcome this most of the time , he is sociable with other dogs unless they are coming towards him and then his is fearful so I use the distraction technique with little bits of sausage . On my vets advice, I have ordered some Scullcap and Valerian tablets through Dorwest Herbs , Vet David thinks they could help him to overcome his anxieties and exciteability and in turn, help to lower his metabolic rate and hopefully overcome the nightime pooing situation . I wondered about getting a Dap difuser but then didnt know if this would only work inside the home and also it might affect Sam who is already so laid back that he might become lethargic : The other thing we have to consider is that Flynn was already castrated when picked up as a stray in Ireland but there is no record anywhere of when it was done or by whom , we only know that he must have been done at a very early age indeed, before 5 months old which again my Vet says could be a contributary factor in his anxieties . Thank you again , will let you know if the herbal remedy works .
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Hi Kate, good luck with the herbs - I've found Dorwest products to be excellent and swore by the "treebarks" powder when Barney had a trick tummy. Although we've sorted that now I always have a pot in for when someone eats something they shouldn't have. I can't remember if I've mentioned this to you before but you might also want to look at the Trust Technique. Barney had huge seperation anxiety and I couldn't get him to put any weight on when I first got him and like you I had no background as he was a rescued stray. Essentially the technique is about teaching them to be calm and peaceful. I knew I was onto something when I watched the first video and Barney stopped fidgeting at the sound of James' voice, curled up and went to sleep! I did end up asking James to come and work with Barney personally and is was the best thing I ever did. (If you do visit the site Barney is featured in section 11 I think you can see the first film without joining in all the sections) Funny I was just thinking this morning i could do with spending some time teaching Teasle to be calm & peaceful she's a classic mad spanner! big hugs to little Flynn and Sam - and most of all for you in being so good to them both Carole x
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Thank you for your kind words Carole I had a quick look at the website, will have a better look later . We would try anything for Flynn , he has come such a long way already in a short time but I do understand that it may take some considerable time longer x
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Hi Kate We swear by our herbs, we have a wonderful herbalist vet who prescribes a calming mix for Hebe for the fireworks, loaded with lavender so she smells sweet too! I also have some 'gloop' called nutricalm it's a precursor of tryptophan (I think), it helps settle her. It helped a friend's rescued lurcher too, Flicker was more than a bit manic (think dog and shed roof...), she used it for about three to four weeks to help modify Flicker's behaviour so that she was able to focus and learn to do all the usual things. The dap for Maia didn't zonk out the others although it did make me sneeze! And tree barks are amazing, we have specifically slippery elm, mixed with honey it settles most tums, I always have some 'in stock'. Good luck with Flynn and thanks to Sam for being understanding, I'm sending him a virtual bonio! Kerryn
Re: Can anyone shed any light please ? Happy to report that after just four days of taking scullcap and valerian tablets , Flynns bowel activity has decreased and for two mornings running , there has been no little present left for me to pick up I am also noticing a very slight, but definate improvement re his excitable behaviour , not quite so determined to throw himself at everyone, just a tiny bit more restrained, long may it last
