Re: Canine mind Oh Jen I feel your pain! Benson is not reactive....but a big BUT...when he is excited, ehem sexually excited, there is absolutely nothing we can do, it happened on our lab walk yesterday. He was so aroused by Ezra the only thing we could was let the group walk ahead...there was no way we could even manage Benson on a lead, it was very challenging, as apart from that he is not a problem, generally speaking that is! : We have a training course for teenagers starting early Jan, which should help, and also are considering working with Helen Phillips in the spring. We are going to discuss the hormone depot with our vet later this week, to see if that may help.
Re: Canine mind I'd be interested to know what your vet says about it Kate. When my two get the scent of a lady I have to quickly put myself between them. They start whinging at each other and dancing about. Not easy when holding two leads. :
Re: Canine mind [quote author=JulieT link=topic=9258.msg133026#msg133026 date=1419801338] What do you mean by "highly strung"? [/quote] I think I know exactly what you mean, Jen, by highly strung. Murffi is so highly strung it takes the slightest thing, noise, movement etc. to send him into orbit but not in a happy good way. The only time he is focused and completely wrapped up in what he is doing is when I hunt him. In that situation he is not bothered in the slightest by other dogs, other people new environments, whatever. I had to learn so many things about how he wants to be touched, talked to, and handled in the field to keep him calm. I don't really believe that there is anything herbal I could give him that would alter his state of mind, he is the way he is, and I expect he will be like this until old age will slow him down. He was neutered before I got him. His previous owners thought castration would calm him down. They were wrong.
Re: Canine mind Thank you Heidrun it's good to know some one with your experience has similar problems although you are probably a lot better at working with the problem than me. :-\ Scout is more highly strung than Scott and he sounds similar to Murffi. When we are training he is really focused you can see it in his eyes he wants to get on with the job. Once he's tired he can still get distracted though :. I just need to find a way to harness or at least manage that drive when not training. If there is a way. : If I could find a way I do think it would also help with their nervousness. I don't know for sure but I think it's all linked. In the meantime I need to accept, like you, this is how my dogs are. They may not conform to how other people believe dogs, especially Labradors, should be and they might be hard work at times but all dogs are different. Mine are just 'special'
Re: Canine mind [quote author=Jen link=topic=9258.msg133164#msg133164 date=1419882573] I'd be interested to know what your vet says about it Kate. When my two get the scent of a lady I have to quickly put myself between them. They start whinging at each other and dancing about. Not easy when holding two leads. : [/quote] Just thought I would write a reply before I forget everything the vet said! We were lucky to see the senior partner, who has always kept black labs, and actually does not believe in routinely castrating, suggesting instead on working on behaviours through training. If they are to be castrated he recommends around a year old, mainly because of the issue of "learned behaviours" setting in, and that the growing plates should have finished by then. I thought that point around "learned behaviour" was interesting, as Casper does wander, and he shoots of like a bullet" He was castrated late, I don't know his history but doubt that castrating has decreased his wandering drive. Benson does not wander, and we have far more control compared to Casper, which is a good example I think on the importance of training. The vet was not convinced that Benson ever needed to be castrated, however he did run through all the options for us. He made it very clear that he does not believe in castration as a rule, however is very much driven by the dog he sees in front of him. He also surprised us by suggesting if chemical castration was the route we felt we needed to consider, then to try the Tardak (4 - 6 weeks effectiveness) over the supraloin. (sp)The reason behind this was that with Tardak you see an almost immediate effect on hormonal drive/behaviour and therefore have a clearer before and after picture. It also wears off quickly. He stressed that in our case, it was really to see if behaviour around bitches in season could be reduced...he then added, well you don't really come across them that often locally, and if one is an issue it is good to know where they are, so you can usually manage, it is much harder to manage weight, and the corresponding effect on joints and health. He was very happy with Bensons weight, at 28.2kg was fine. Casper remains steady at 30.2kg which is good. I also got the feeling that the vet saw a LOT of overweight chocolate labs as he did stress with chocolate labs that obesity was more prevalent then blacks and yellows. Hope that helps anyone else considering the same decision
Re: Canine mind Very interesting Kate, thank you. We were told the same thing about learned behaviours.....if we saw something we genuinely felt would be improved by castration we should get on with it before the behaviour became learnt.
Re: Canine mind Thank you very much for taking the time to write that up Kate it's very interesting. I might have got this completely wrong but do they treat enlarged prostate with tardac. I have a feeling my old lab had that injection when he had an enlarged prostate although I could be wrong with the name. :-\
Re: Canine mind That's exactly what happened with my old Bones Jen. He had an enlarged prostrate and was treated for it with chemical castration - I cannot remember what sort, though. It made no difference to his temperament that I could see - but he was very laid back anyway in his older years.
Re: Canine mind This is an interesting discussion that I really can't provide much useful info for, interms of the castration issue. Here pets are neutered routinely, usually before a year old. I have had three dogs, two raised from pups, both of them neutered before a year, and I saw no differences in their behaviour or personality in them. Simba was older, at just a year old, and it's hard to say whether it changed his personality at all. I just knew I could hardly control him at the best of times at that point, no way did I want to add having him haring off after a bitch in season on top of that. I think your point about accepting the dog(s) you have is an important one, though, Jen. None of us have perfect dogs. They all have their own personalities and issues, and sometimes you just have to do the best you can to manage all that, accepting them for who they are. My previous dog was a terrible barker, he barked at anything all the time. I tried everything I could to train him out of it, but in the end I just had to accept that this was who he was...and his good points far outweighed that negative one.
Re: Canine mind No I don't remember it making any difference to Murphy either Karen. Although like Bones he was laid back anyway. The complete opposite to S&S. : . I think that's why I find S&S so difficult at times. I went from 15 years of the most laid back, practically bomb proof lab you could imagine to two highly strung, nervous creatures. :-\ He was properly castrated in the end because the injection only worked temporarily. The only difference I noticed in him was he walked nearer me ! By then he was 10 anyway so no idea if it was castration or age. : Your right Lisa and S&S good points out weigh the bad. They are good dogs I just need to remember that when they are being hard work.
Re: Canine mind [quote author=Jen link=topic=9258.msg133619#msg133619 date=1420103592] No I don't remember it making any difference to Murphy either Karen. Although like Bones he was laid back anyway. The complete opposite to S&S. : . I think that's why I find S&S so difficult at times. I went from 15 years of the most laid back, practically bomb proof lab you could imagine to two highly strung, nervous creatures. :-\ He was properly castrated in the end because the injection only worked temporarily. The only difference I noticed in him was he walked nearer me ! By then he was 10 anyway so no idea if it was castration or age. : Your right Lisa and S&S good points out weigh the bad. They are good dogs I just need to remember that when they are being hard work. [/quote] It's the difficult animals that teach us the most. I have had a bombproof horse for the last 24 years. I have never fallen off but also never learnt to ride 'properly'. ;D
Re: Canine mind [quote author=heidrun link=topic=9258.msg133621#msg133621 date=1420103998] [quote author=Jen link=topic=9258.msg133619#msg133619 date=1420103592] No I don't remember it making any difference to Murphy either Karen. Although like Bones he was laid back anyway. The complete opposite to S&S. : . I think that's why I find S&S so difficult at times. I went from 15 years of the most laid back, practically bomb proof lab you could imagine to two highly strung, nervous creatures. :-\ He was properly castrated in the end because the injection only worked temporarily. The only difference I noticed in him was he walked nearer me ! By then he was 10 anyway so no idea if it was castration or age. : Your right Lisa and S&S good points out weigh the bad. They are good dogs I just need to remember that when they are being hard work. [/quote] It's the difficult animals that teach us the most. I have had a bombproof horse for the last 24 years. I have never fallen off but also never learnt to ride 'properly'. ;D [/quote] Very interesting point, I love the different personalties of the two VERY different dogs we now have. They do however present with challenges, and part of me is now thinking along the lines of, well that's OK I will just learn to manage with that as much as I can, it is just the way they are. I did however, catch myself clicking on a link to a dog tracking device.... : ;D
Re: Canine mind I have yin and yang. Cuillin definately falls into the Highly Strung category, but is a beautiful, really clever girl and her positives far outweigh some of the harder issues we have to work with. She is a dream to train, so focused and just wants to do stuff as much as she can.... I accepted some of her wee issues a long time ago, most of them are just who she is, some I could have prevented developing if Id been more experienced but I've learnt heaps with her, as my first dog we have journeyed a steep learning curve together! Cant decide whether thats why Brods is soooo laid back and easy as second dog ( hunting urges aside!). He's nearly horizontal he's so relaxed. Think most of it is again just who he is, but also I've learnt so much with Cuilli its made me a better owner....Love them and their different ways just the same!
Re: Canine mind Bones didn't have to be castrated in the long run, as his condition improved after about six months. Yes, I can imagine going from a very laid-back old chap to two highly strung young fellows must be quite a shock to the system... But it seems to me you are dealing with the challenges admirably.
