I took Charlie out for a late short walk last night, not that good. All the training that I do with him he is excellent but he cannot transfer these skills outside our garden etc. Pulled on the lead then we got onto the track I dropped his lead and he did some good recalls but then off he went and surfed his way through a crop and I couldn't see him, he went to the other side where we caught up with him. Why oh why can't he just learn?? It all just seems so in vain all the hours and hours I spend training him, is it really worth it after almost 2 years. His end of term report was so good but it's all in a controlled environment and that's where it seems to end for him. Sorry to sound so negative but so fed up Helen x
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Oh Helen , I really dont know what to advise , but just wanted to say how sorry I am that you have hit a brick wall again xx
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Helen, never ever forget Charlie's breeding. He is a hunting bred dog, the pointer blood in him will have hardwired him to go searching for game. All of my spaniels are exactly the same. If I take them into an open field they will scan the horizon for the nearest bit of cover in the form of a hedgerow or a patch of bracken or something like that because they know that's where the real fun can be found. A crop field would be their idea of heaven. All the time you were doing your little recall and bits of training alongside the field, Charlie's nose would have done overtime taking in all the scents wafting over from the crop field and he would have sussed out the direction of the wind and which way to turn to hunt out that field. That's what hunting bred dogs do. My dogs with all their years of training would have probably done exactly the same in that situation. So, the only advice I can give is pick and choose carefully where you go and progress with your training. Keep on working on that stop whistle, have the whistle in your mouth all the time ready to blow it and watch your dog like a hawk. Learn to read his body language. There is always something that tells an observant handler that their dog is just about to do a runner. It could be a flick of the head when they pick up a scent or a tensing of all the muscles for a millisecond before the dog is off. That is your cue to blow that stop whistle. In the past when that has failed a very, very loud NO has succeeded with all of my dogs. Don't be too down about this. It happens.
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Oh dear Helen, it is soooo frustrating isn't it I'm trying to remember the details but a while ago you had a similar problem when you couldn't find the next step after starting Charlies recall in a riding school or paddock? something like that. You found the next step then and you will again!! ;D big hugs!! We're the same if we try and go too fast with the recall it all falls apart. You need to find the smallest of possible steps when you go from your controlled environment and go back to the simplest of exercises then build and build just like you have done so far. I have much more success with a verbal heel or sit than I do with a recall or whistle stop at this point. I'm just like you trying to build it up and up with greater distractions and I definitely have my fair share of failures If I look at Riley his ears are the giveaway, they just perk a little and his head lifts slightly and that's my moment otherwise he's gone! So you are not alone ;D
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Heidrun, unfortunately where I live there are no places without distractions to walk I really don't have a choice. I was under the impression that I could not use my stop or recall whistle out and about until I have completed Total Recall and all the proofing is done or I could be setting him up to fail. Charlie is not good enough at the stop whistle yet so I don't think it would work if he got a scent. I am finding it really hard to get him interested in retrieving or us when out, when he is on a training line he just canters off and then that can be it before I have a split second to step on the line he can go. I really think his habits are so deep rooted I am just wasting my time which I don't have a lot of. He continuous scanning has me totally on edge. Charlie is bonkers and I am very down about it because it's very stressful and I just want my lovely walks back with Hattie. Not sure how much longer David and I can go on like this. Not feeling sorry for myself just being honest :'( Helen x
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Helen - so sorry to hear you are down about this, it sounds like everyone is right though - you seem to have overcome so much, and this might just be the next hurdle (I guess you might be wondering when you have to stop jumping though). (I wish I had some insight, but I don't, as I can barely get my puppy round the park without somekind of minor upset, I'll leave more experienced people to offer advice).
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Helen, when you say you want your lovely walks with Hattie why not have those walks but keep Charlie on the lead? Whenever I have visitors staying with their dogs they want to make use of the lovely walks I have here on my doorstep. None of them can understand that I will bring one or two of my dogs along but keep them on the lead or have them off lead but walking to heel. They think I am crazy. But I know my dogs and their limitations. When I walk with friends I have a chat and admire the country side and I no longer concentrate on the dogs and they would work that out in a very short time and they would be off to do their own thing. They need constant feed-back from me with regards to where they should be and what they should be doing. As for Charlie being bonkers, yes, I do sympathise with you. Murffi is also bonkers and more than just a little bit screwed up. There is nothing I can do about it apart from carry on training. ;D
Re: Can't seem to transfer training While not quite at spanner standards Riley is similar and needs management on a walk. If you switch off and start chatting he will find trouble. My friend with her immaculately behaved lab thinks it's incredibly irritating but that's just the way it is for us. If I can't concentrate because I'm tired or Lizzie needs attention then on his lead he goes. Mind you in this heat a gentle amble is all he's up for anyway. Sending you good vibes, I hope you find a way through
Re: Can't seem to transfer training I agree with Heidrun - just keep him on his lead and let Hattie enjoy her off-lead time. He will still get a nice walk, he'll be safe, and you won't have to worry.
Re: Can't seem to transfer training so sorry you are feeling down helen,....big hugs from me and jasper........lift your self up and dust yourself down,.....things will get better
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Charlie is on lead but with Hattie off lead is a real issue for him because he wants to be with her and I get dragged along so NOT a nice walk at all. I can't do all this constant feed back because he DOESN'T listen on lead or off. I am totally sick of it now. I never have any problem with Hattie whether I am with a group of friends, children or on my own which is what I really do miss. Charlie is like a child with ADHD. Can't seem to get through Total Recall either. Really need to do some thinking about his future and ours :'( Helen x
Re: Can't seem to transfer training I don't know if you've tried it, or it would be impractical, but could you have him trained by someone else for a bit? I mean by a professional who would do things as you want - might give you a break if nothing else? (I've started to threaten my Charlie that, if he doesn't behave, I'll put him in a box and post him to Heidrun, that'd show him who's boss and what 'work for treats' means.... ;D ;D).
Re: Can't seem to transfer training "Like a child with ADHD" I have often thought of Murffi in those terms and I am sure there is a canine version of ADHD that some dogs have. But he also has absolutely brilliant qualities, which I am sure Charlie has, too. Murffi is fast and exciting to work on a shoot (I can't bear ploddy dogs ) and quite cheeky but affectionate in the house. He constantly makes me think about my training and how to improve. Without him I wouldn't have discovered clicker training. He has frustrated me so many times but every little break through is a real triumph. I know that if I ever thought I couldn't keep him any longer he would be in real trouble because who else would love him as much as I do and put in the amount of training that I do?
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Hi Helen, Is walking them seperately a possibility? I can completely understand that you need pleasureable dog ownership time, not battling all the time. x
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Heidrun, you have a passion for all of this gundog stuff, I don't, you get it, I don't. I want a ploddy dog to amble along with on beautiful country walks, it's my way to relax away from a house full of teenagers and life I am so cross that the rescue centre homed him with us under false pretenses and now we have had all this work and still possibly so much more to do, and really I don't want to do it and I don't have the amount of time you do. I absorb and put into practise all the information given to me but he just doesn't help me. He is 2 1/2 years old now and I am scared about his future. He would be a brilliant boy and maybe would have made a fine gundog IF he had been placed in the correct home. We love him but that's not enough. Your dogs are such a credit to you especially Murffi. I admire you very much. xx
Re: Can't seem to transfer training We have been mostly walking them separately for almost 2 years but sometimes that's not possible and we really don't want to or have the time for it either. Thanks Helen x
Re: Can't seem to transfer training that is really nice heidrun.......you have just made him sound very special to you
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Oh Helen, You sound so down. Wish I could hug you and take Charlie for a few days. You feel trapped because you love him so much. If you didn't feel such a connection with him, it wouldn't be so difficult for you to deal with all these emotions. Is there someone who could take Charlie for a few days? When you're in the middle of a situation, is the most difficult time to make decisions about it.
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Thank you, but we wouldn't put that responsibility onto anyone and we are always in the middle of a situation with Charlie. Helen x
Re: Can't seem to transfer training Oh Helen, I've been off line all day and this is the first thread Ive picked up....you've got the big guns on here(Heidrun,Rachael and Barbara ......no disrespect to all the other lovely members that have commented,x) helping you through,there's nothing on a practical level I can add.When you have got a dog that needs such effort it must be really draining for you and that's bound to make you fed up.I dont know the full story of yours and Charlie's journey but I know enough to realize there has been a massive investment of time and energy from you and the family .Today you sound right fed up!I don't think even the best cheer leading speeches from us will change that,so let yourself have a fed up day ....in fact let yourself have a down right p@ئ%#d off day.When you feel better which will hopefully be tomorrow realize how far you have come,how much effort you have devoted to Charlie and what an improvement you have seen.All those highs and the elation when something clicked with him.....even if it was only in your back garden.All that effort will have been wasted if you give up now,you will break through again and you will feel,those highs and elation again and it will feel brilliant.Its an admirable thing to rescue a dog....and give them a chance....but it's a bit of a lottery too.Sorry I can't wave a magic wand.....oh wouldn't that be amazing ;D but then we wouldn't be the people we are and have the dogs and relationships with them that we do if it was that easy x
