Now Charlie’s recovery is within reach, I’m going to bombard you all about a thousand different training problems that are running through my mind. The first (well, second, the first was Charlie’s career as a professional thief) is about other dogs. When we were normal, other dogs were no big deal. On most days, Charlie would get to play briefly with other dogs, usually in his free time before we started training or training/walking. Sometimes, he’d get to play for quite a while if I was talking to someone and he met a dog he wanted to play with. So long as the play didn’t get out of control with too many dogs, 1 or 2 well behaved dogs was our target, his recall was good and anyway, he’d get bored after a bit and want to do something with his dummy or his ball. A “let’s go” and we’d be on our way. He had exposure to hundreds and hundreds of other dogs up until he was 9 months old. Then nothing. No off lead interaction, no on lead interaction. He has occasionally said hello to another dog in a vet’s waiting room where space constrains meant I had no choice, really. Plans for walking with another quiet dog never came about, as he was too excitable. Now, other dogs are a big deal. He is absolutely desperate to get to other dogs when he is on lead. So I’m wondering. Do you think I should just go back to his old routine and I’ll be super careful with my recall, reproofing it like we did at first (we played recall games, moving towards distractions and other dogs) or should I perhaps not allow him to play with other dogs until after I’ve reproofed my recall? The thing about the second approach is that the sort of desperation to get to other dogs might get in the way? Or, alternatively, allowing access to other dogs may not remove the desperation, which may have sort of become a semi-permanent state of affairs, so I should proof before I allow access? What do you think?
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead I'm not the best to give advice when it comes to recall but I think if Charlie was mine I'd start reproofing his recall straight away but if the opportunity for doggy play came up I'd let him and see what happens. It might go pear shaped or he might surprise you and behave as he always did. Once he's had the chance to play get bored of it and come to you. It's a risk but you would then know one way or the other. Like you said if you restrict him from interacting his desire to play with the other dog may hamper the proofing. I'd give him a chance to prove himself but then again I could be completely wrong.
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead Thanks Jen, thoughts very much appreciated. [quote author=Jen link=topic=4714.msg58124#msg58124 date=1393767224] Like you said if you restrict him from interacting his desire to play with the other dog may hamper the proofing. [/quote] That's very much what I think. If I restricted all play, it might just make things worse. I was wondering about the use of a long line. I've had just one bad experience with them, so discarded the idea. I still think it's impossible to effectively use a long line in a busy place like the London parks or Common.
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead I agree it's difficult to use them in a busy place. I have difficulty in our garden because of the amount of trees and bushes. Unless I'm careful we can get into a terrible tangle. : It might give you more confidence though and if you could find an open area for it all to happen, if he should decide he's not leaving his new best friend you have a fall back plan. Also if your nervous about letting him play he might pick up on it and it's amazing how good they are at picking up the fact that because they aren't coming back you are getting quite excited about it and that sometimes adds to the fun. Although I'm sure Charlie isn't like that.
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead Hmmm... yes, I am seriously thinking about the long line, and how I could use it. I don't have endless places to go in London, and the places I can go to do have some open spaces, but other people, dogs, joggers and so on can appear very quickly. It's interesting that you say about me being nervous. I think I am a bit. Recall was always quite easy for us - only because I bought Total Recall before I bought Charlie - but now I don't know what I'll have when I get Charlie back. His behaviour has changed. He is just so deprived of freedom, smells, play...I honestly think he is desperate for all of these things. We walked passed what looked like a fox hole the other day on lead, yet we've walked by it hundreds of times off lead in the past with a "let's go", and it was a complete drama with Charlie. I'm sure because he is deprived of interesting things.
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead From what I know of you Julie, whatever tactics/method you decided use, you will be successful. I understand you saying Charlie's recall was brilliant before and you are worried what it will be like after his recovery, but I do think he will still have a good recall and you will get him back spot on very quickly x
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead I agree with Naya. He might go a bit loopy and deaf the first time he gets his freedom back but he won't have forgotten everything. He's had a good foundation I'm sure it will come back to him easily.
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead He definitely hasn't forgotten his recall signal. In controlled situations (which is all we've been in for ages) - tiny paddocks, his enclosure in the garden, and so on, he responds as well as ever. It's just his overwhelming interest and desire to get to other dogs (and to some extent birds and other animals) that is now new, it wasn't there before, that is making me wonder. I was half thinking that I'd have him on a long line, and see whether I could recall him away from other dogs as a first step. But on second thoughts, I think maybe a bit of freedom first. But not sure... The dog walker might still be willing to provide that quiet, sensible black lab that we had in mind for walking with Charlie. Maybe we could go out really early, and she could work with us. Yes, I think that's the thing to do.
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead I think if you can engineer some middle ground situations to start with that will get you a long way in the initial excitement and allow all your training to kick back in
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead I think you should allow Charlie to play with other dogs off lead in areas in which it is safe. Definitely practise with a quiet dog first Once you've had success practising with the quiet black dog then try him out in a slightly less controlled situation. Make him sit and look at you for a treat (bring out the treat big guns) before he's allowed off and use a release cue (I'm sure you do all that anyway!). Up to you whether you allow on-lead interaction. I don't think it matters as long as it's of your choosing and he is able to sit and be under control and then say hello when you give him the go-ahead. Too achieve that state you may need to do a lot of practice of sitting or heeling on lead without saying hello, until he can manage that calmly. You just need to decide what your rule is. Your rule might be 'you can say hello on lead or off lead, but only after you have sat and I have released you (even if the lead stays on)' or it might be 'you can't ever say hello on lead but once the lead is off and you are released you may say hello' (the latter is our rule).
Re: Charlie and other dogs - off lead Many thanks - thoughts so useful while I plan this out (I know I've got a while to go, but thinking and planning cheers me up ). We had no on-lead interaction rule for a while before he was injured, because he wasn't that well behaved so I thought it was easier. Then after injury, it was necessary, because he'd get so excited we risked a big jump and leap. During recovery, we'll also have to have a no interaction on lead policy - so I think I'll just stick to it. Yes, he always had to sit and be told "go play" to off lead dogs. The chances of him doing that now though I reckon are zero (based on his excitability and misbehaviour on lead whenever we see a dog). So that's something I'll have to retrain, for sure. Umm...I'm not sure how I trained it in the first place. I think I we just always did it from when he was a few weeks old. Have to get my thinking cap on...
