Thanks for the support on June's training! My boy now has clean teeth! ;D ;D ;D And I've refreshed his great recall, and changed "sit" to sit-wait. I got lots of positive, constructive, support from you so I thought I'd see whether anyone wants to keep me company on my next challenge, which is coping with distractions in the form of other dogs, balls and dummies. Early August is a key date, because I have a holiday booked - a fun training week away with other dogs. Which I'm looking forward to, but also slightly dreading in case we just go on a hooligan disruptive rampage the whole time, which is highly likely! The biggest distractions for Charlie are moving balls and other dogs. Dogs playing with balls are super challenging for us. The issue isn't recall - Charlie will recall away from distractions - the issue is him staying at heel off lead and not charging off across the field/beach in the first place. In terms of balls and dummies we are working our way through the Gundog Trust books doing the steadiness training. In terms of other dogs, we are doing 3 things. First I have two sessions a week with a gundog trainer working on the basics with other dogs around - I posted the pics from that yesterday. I'm also trying to take what I learn with the trainer and apply it in real life, but that's harder as off lead dogs outside training are very unpredictable, and I've got to be careful Charlie doesn't get a massive reward of a game with another dog when he charges off. The third thing I'm trying is tomorrow we are attending a local dog training class (inside, unfortunately) but we are only going to work on control around other dogs so I'll just stay as long as it's productive to do so. Anyone else got a "mad to play with other dogs" labrador and wants to share their plan of attack? Like I say, I'd love some company...
Re: Charlie's July/August training I've got a 'not really sure what she wants to do but secretly wants to play so she will just charge off after dogs anyway and to hell with the consequences' Labrador... I will be snooping around this thread with interest to see what tips I can pick up
Re: Charlie's July/August training Oh me! We are still on limited activity though. We also have an I must see, lick and jump all over any human that even glances at me kind of dog so we are working on our down stays for pats. We are trying to get as many people as possible to approach then walk away when she gets up. Hoping she will get the idea that when she stays down she will get a pat. It looks like it may take a while. We are getting it at home after about 5-6 approaches and walk aways. Then we will try out near the lake and see what happens we have to stay away from playing at the moment but that's our next hurdle when we get the go ahead from the vet Good luck.
Re: Charlie's July/August training Please do Julie, our training challenges for July/August are very similar, primarily for us, working with other dogs/distractions. We start group classes this weekend outside, have had a few one to ones and now it's time to step up the proofing. Our recall went out the window yesterday, took Benson for a late evening walk..and he bounded off to play football, err... proper football too! To cap it all he was soaking wet after a swim, did a quick hoolie round the football pitch and dribbled with their ball for a bit. They were all so impressed with his skills that they weren't annoyed at all, despite their valiant (but foolish..) attempts to gain control of their ball. A LOT more proofing me thinks as he just epitomised the image of mad chocolate lab last night! : :
Re: Charlie's July/August training [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=7009.msg95548#msg95548 date=1405695482] A LOT more proofing me thinks as he just epitomised the image of mad chocolate lab last night! : : [/quote] ;D ;D ;D (For the avoidance of doubt, only owners of Choccies are allowed to say they are all nuts - anyone with a perfectly behaved black one says it and we owners of nutty Chocolates get offended! ;D ;D ;D ;D )
Re: Charlie's July/August training [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7009.msg95551#msg95551 date=1405695758] [quote author=Beanwood link=topic=7009.msg95548#msg95548 date=1405695482] A LOT more proofing me thinks as he just epitomised the image of mad chocolate lab last night! : : [/quote] ;D ;D ;D (For the avoidance of doubt, only owners of Choccies are allowed to say they are all nuts - anyone with a perfectly behaved black one says it and we owners of nutty Chocolates get offended! ;D ;D ;D ;D ) [/quote] ;D ;D Absolutely! The wrath of a choc lab owner is not to be taken lightly! ;D ;D
Re: Charlie's July/August training [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7009.msg95501#msg95501 date=1405675109] Anyone else got a "mad to play with other dogs" labrador and wants to share their plan of attack? Like I say, I'd love some company... [/quote] Me, me! Where we're at: Up to the age of about 10 months she was a total nightmare wanting to charge up and play with other dogs. Between 6 months and 10 months the main focus was getting a recall once she'd got to the other dog (prior to this time, we didn't even have that). Now, at 14 months, I can get her back from other dogs, heel on lead sensibly past calm on-lead dogs, sit still with minimal fidgeting (if there's a good treat available) to allow a hyper on-lead dog pass, and on a good day heel off-lead past a calm on-lead dog. On two memorable occasions she has done a 'weave' off-lead through a line of about 8 on-lead sitting dogs (woo hoo!) at gundog class. However, at another group recently she practically went into orbit watching other dogs do water retrieves, and lost all her own (normally fine) retrieve steadiness when it was her turn. Had a similar experience at a village fete when someone considerately decided to play ball in the corner of the field with a ball thrower and a collie doing VTOLs. And if I'm not on top of my game and she sees an off-lead dog on a walk before I do, she'll still shoot up to them like a missile.(Then usually stop and roll over about 5 metres away). She's a very submissive dog, and I'm sure the hyper behaviour is wanting to ingratiate herself with any potential bullies before she gets bullied herself. But it's not good for my blood pressure! She's not completely ball mad, but does love a retrieve or, even better, a hunt. So on walks I now frequently drop a ball or dummy on the path and then send her back for it when we're 50 metres or so away, which interrupts her racing ahead and spotting off-lead dogs before I do. If we're surprised, but I still see the other dog before she does, I lob a ball or dummy into the heather or long grass to the side (we walk on heathland) and in both those circumstances she'll finish the retrieve before thinking about the other dog, so this makes the situation manageable. Off-lead heelwork is not great, but I do frequent stops with stop-whistle, some of which I treat, to get her attention back on me if she starts wavering or she's creeping forward (that's how we managed the off-lead weave). Also when practicing heelwork on walks I'll stop whistle her and keep walking then call her back into heel, and repeat a few times, just to keep her attention. All this is not really a plan for moving forward, just a containment strategy, so ideas are welcome!
Re: Charlie's July/August training Gosh, Kath - you could almost be describing Charlie! (Apart from he is totally ball mad - which doesn't help, really, as he is so ball mad it's difficult to use as a tool - and not at ALL steady). Thanks! I really appreciate the company! Well, today was a "light" training day, as we have class (the local obedience class - first time I've tried it) tomorrow and we had our gundog 121 yesterday. So we did 2 not at all challenging lead walks, some steadiness training, and a very challenging walk by the river with lots of off lead dogs. Here we are on steadiness: https://www.flickr.com/photos/97932779@N08/14684483065/ We've moved on a bit - tennis balls are now more challenging than dummies (as he is never allowed to run in for a dummy, but tennis balls are flung for fun by OH). And we are 90 degrees to the direction of the balls. We'll try to move round to face the balls rolling away next, then we'll try to take this outside. The river walk involved 3 sets of off lead dogs: First 3 spaniels chasing balls. Charlie on lead and we passed with minor tugs on the lead - hurrah! Big improvement! Then 2 off lead labs passed us when he was off lead and he stayed with me - triple hurrah! Although in my favour I had: the river; OH stood in the river with a squeeky toy; his bouncy ball in my hand about to be thrown into the river; and a freezer bag of sardines under his nose. ;D ;D ;D I reckon I stacked the odds! On the way back to the carpark 2 yappy, snappy, lapdogs off lead passed us. I walked off the path (there wasn't much room) and put him in a sit-wait. Stupid yappy dog stood yap yap yapping away (while owner said "Teddy! Teddy! Come on Teddy!) and eventually Charlie broke his sit and lunged. I had to put sardines under his nose to get him back. Boo. With the yappy dogs, I should have walked on - I was right to put him in a sit (because there wasn't room on the path). But once the dogs were stood barking at us, I'd have been better off just walking away. The reason I didn't is that I was expecting Charlie to lunge across in front of me, and this makes me feel a bit unsteady. Charlie is a big, strong, fit, dog now and when he decides he wants to get to another dog, it's tricky. I'll have to think about what I do in this situation in future.
Re: Charlie's July/August training [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7009.msg95620#msg95620 date=1405722434] With the yappy dogs, I should have walked on - I was right to put him in a sit (because there wasn't room on the path). But once the dogs were stood barking at us, I'd have been better off just walking away. The reason I didn't is that I was expecting Charlie to lunge across in front of me, and this makes me feel a bit unsteady. Charlie is a big, strong, fit, dog now and when he decides he wants to get to another dog, it's tricky. I'll have to think about what I do in this situation in future. [/quote] Ooof! Yes, tiny yappy ones are tricky, especially if there's more than one. We have a chihuahua at our obedience group that Merla is fascinated with and has been known to detour up to visit it on a recall I'm terrified she'll try to retrieve it ;D ;D I've had some success with tight left-handed circles, sea-wrap in hand, in difficult situations when I can't get away as it stops M going into fixed stare mode, which is often a precursor to lunging. Needs a bit of manoeuvring space though. Report from today's morning walk- 6am and blissfully quiet. Got out between rain and heat. The only other walker we met was a lady with 2 black labs. One was a 5 month puppy who spotted M picking up her dummy and running back to me and chased after her in hot pursuit. M was good, didn't really notice I think and finished the retrieve. The lady panted up doing the 'I'm sorry' jog I know so well (!) and after she arrived we let them have a play. Her other lab was only 18 months old but was the sort of dog who always belongs to someone else- serene and un-fussing. She didn't know what had hit her with the young one, I think she'd thought all labs were like her other dog!! Had a nice chat and retuned without further incident.
Re: Charlie's July/August training Well done Merla! That sounds good. Charlie would ignore another dog going out to pick up a dummy, but once he has the dummy, he'd be quite happy to run round with another dog, dummy in mouth. Bringing back the dummy to me has never been his priority! [quote author=Merla link=topic=7009.msg95658#msg95658 date=1405751812] I'm terrified she'll try to retrieve it ;D ;D [/quote] ;D ;D ;D Yes, my trainer says do circles, etc. Either I'm not very good at them, or just have impractical paths where I walk. They work fine in a flat field with a well trained stooge dog though. : I'll have to crack it, I'm stood still too much and it's not helping. I do think a sit is better than walking forward if Charlie is already misbehaving because if I'm walking forward the distance to the other dog is closing rapidly, and that's rewarding for him I think.
Re: Charlie's July/August training On my phone with nit much time.....will read this better later but..... if circles are impractical you could do about turns just make sure you turn INTO your dog (so left if they're at heel on your left), couple of paces then turn again.
Re: Charlie's July/August training See I usually turn away from Penny, pulling her with me with a click and treat for coming away and following me... Perhaps we will try the turning into the dog and see if that makes a difference. I guess I felt like turning away would kind of be her making her own choice to come away from the dog/cyclist/child on scooter and would help her learn better...
Re: Charlie's July/August training I guess it depends what you're looking for and what stage of proofing you're at. Typically you turn into the dog as that 'closes the door' on them as you're not opening up space for them to use to run in or dance about on the end of their lead. If you have to use your lead to move her away you may find it easier to turn into her for a while....just an option
Re: Charlie's July/August training Yes, I reckon we will give that a go... If nothing else it gives us chance to practice our pivot left for Rally!
Re: Charlie's July/August training I think Barbara is right - come away from fixed distractions (eg rubbish, a very interesting smell) I use my "turn to me" noise and reward for turning 180 degrees. But for moving, super exciting distractions like other dogs, it does help to put yourself between the dog and distraction (obviously turning left does this if the other dog is in front). Charlie completely lost it at his first stooge dog training session. Right at the end, when he was tired, he went nuts as I walked towards the gate (towards the trainer's kennel of dogs). I was in a bit of a panic - he was on a fixed collar and seemed to be hurting his neck. The trainer just said "stand in front of him". I did and it worked a treat. I know to do this, just sometimes I forget, I think.
Re: Charlie's July/August training I'll we joining you on your journey. Molly has meltdown issues with off lead dogs so hopefully some pearls of wisdom will come our way. Will even accept seed pearls
Re: Charlie's July/August training Thank you! It really helped to have other people saying what they were doing last month. Keeps the motivation up! Well, today we went to beginners school! It was sit - down - turn towards the handler and so on. Even a lesson in inspecting your dog for grass seeds and so on. ;D ;D ;D I had to "get over" teaching my dog to sit again ;D ;D ;D but soon shrugged that off and focused on the value in the exercise which for us was working in very close proximity to other dogs. It was a good thing to do. We spent the lesson being calm around the other dogs. And it was a really good exercise. On the whole Charlie was surprisingly good. Standing in a room with other dogs, doing simple exercises and keeping Charlie's attention on me was well worth it. It was a billion times better than the church hall puppy school I went to when Charlie was tiny. It was inside, in a largish room with 3 other dogs (a rather nervous labrador, a small fluffy dog that had a squished nose, and a dog that I think was a Shar Pei but I'm not sure). Thankfully, with a very good non-slip floor (very important for Charlie, I hate inside dog classes on slippery floors). He was only really over excited at one point where there was a little recall exercise - the other labrador was very jumpy for her treats, and Charlie "lost it" for a moment. He barked! (Which he never does). I immediately headed out the door and removed him. It seemed to work very well, as he immediately calmed down. We then sat at the door watching the other dogs do the same exercise, then we were able to do the same. Although only baby steps training, I was pretty pleased to effectively have Charlie unrestrained in a room with other dogs and keep his attention on me. I'll go again next Saturday, for sure.
Re: Charlie's July/August training Really pleased that the class went so well,I've said before on the Forum it was the reason I went back to our second set of obedience classes to improve Dexters focus around other dogs......it was of great benefit but we could still do a lot better with off lead dogs.Dexter will recall from off lead dogs he knows but I've got no reliability if it's someone new and interesting :-[ I feel like I've exhausted my neighbourhood resources of people prepared to give me a bit of time...so I'll be reading your progress and training methods with interest ....good luck,sounds like you are doing so well x
Re: Charlie's July/August training Sounds like the class went really well Julie and very worth while doing. Charlie showed excellent self control. ;D
