Re: Charlie's July/August training Rourke when young would ignore all dogs for the dummy and ball and probably would still do the same if we went to the same place. But like Charlie, if we are walking down the lane and another dog came by and he was doing walking hold, he would put the ball down! Perhaps it is the throw and fetch which makes them so focussed?
Re: Charlie's July/August training [quote author=Stacia link=topic=7009.msg96554#msg96554 date=1406064506] Perhaps it is the throw and fetch which makes them so focussed? [/quote] It seems so, yes. Or the whole off lead exciting game of retrieve (if I show him a dummy off lead, he sticks to me like glue) - he seems to know when we might do a retrieve and when not. Sometimes I think just having him off lead all the time would be easiest. :
Re: Charlie's July/August training I train with an ex police dog trainer (we tend to do more social training, tea in the hotel, walking around the small town) and he said if he wanted his police dog, when it was working in rowdy crowds, to walk to heel beautifully, he would let him off the lead so that the dog learnt to control himself
Re: Charlie's July/August training I was walking up a long path a couple of days go, and just had enough of Charlie being a bit of a pain on lead. I just let him off so I could have a break - after a sit and wait of course, I didn't reward him for being a pain (no-one else around, but was risky as it's a busy path to the beach so people and dogs could be round a corner). Bl**dy dog then walked liked a pro at heel. :. He'd have been off if another dog appeared though.
Re: Charlie's July/August training So I did the river walk again this morning. A few other dogs about - and someone shooting close by - but quieter than the last time I went. Out of the car on lead - whining, fussing, tiresome dog. I refused to move until he was quiet. He was not behaving well. A little while later, I let him off lead and he was perfect. He walked to heel like a pro. His recall was perfect. Two pips for his new "change direction" whistle and he spun round instantly away from the river and the otters. The reason is that I've started rewarding his off lead walk at heel with a retrieve. Walk at heel, get a retrieve....he wouldn't even leave me to have a poo (which he really, really, needed) - he had a poo when I put his lead back on. : He certainly wouldn't leave me for another dog. Back on lead to walk across the car park, I had trouble stopping him pulling to an off lead dog with an entire freezer bag full of sardine. So this makes me think that my food rewards I've been relying on are just not high value enough to him or I'm absolutely terrible at delivering them in an effective way.... seems it's one or the other....
Re: Charlie's July/August training If a retrieve is more rewarding and more effective than food then forget about food. Sounds like your onto a winner with the retrieves
Re: Charlie's July/August training With my Lab, a tennis ball is the ultimate reward, he will spit food out! Also, I think if you have continually been rewarding Charlie with high value treats, they cease to be high value!
Re: Charlie's July/August training Gosh- Charlie the focussed gundog!! Is there any way you can use the promise of a retrieve to get him across the carpark? By the way...otters....wow!
Re: Charlie's July/August training Well, it's true that the value of the food rewards have ramped up for sure - I do try to vary them, but yes, he will generally spit out kibble outside unless things are boring (I haven't had the option to use anything else but food really - for months - while he was recovering). My OH has a "kibble" test outside. Charlie will only eat it if he's relaxed. (He is a complete Labrador piggy in the house - he loves his food generally). I need to find a way to transfer the fetch reward to his on lead work. It's like he "switches off" when I put the lead on. "That's it then, no more fetch for now, might as well be a complete pain in the bum until she takes the lead off again". Obviously it's possible, just have to get the sequencing right somehow...
Re: Charlie's July/August training Let him retrieve with the lead on, lead off, lead on, lead off, lead on etc etc. In other words disassociate the lead on with the end of the fun.
Re: Charlie's July/August training Hmm....I'd have to tied the lead up so he doesn't get tangled in it...?
Re: Charlie's July/August training [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7009.msg96844#msg96844 date=1406193562] Hmm....I'd have to tied the lead up so he doesn't get tangled in it...? [/quote] Just wrap it loosly round his neck and tuck it under the loops, he still knows the lead is on
Re: Charlie's July/August training If you use a harness with him Ive seen people at my rally class just tuck it into the back of the harness, that way you quickly grab it again. Or you can use one of those really short ones that won't get caught up in his legs.
Re: Charlie's July/August training I think you might have tried this but what about a ball on a rope dangling in front of him like a donkey with a carrot on a stick. ;D or put the rope back on the dummy (sorry I'm just assuming you've removed it) and again tease him with it. You could have a go when there are no distractions about. Charlie on lead and you keeping the ball on rope just out of reach. Build his desire for it without the chase like you build desire for the retrieve. A lot less messy than sardines.
Re: Charlie's July/August training Thanks Jen, I've tried toys and balls on elastic - it doesn't seem to work on lead (although when I took the lead off the ball on elastic was the most exciting thing ever but only when thrown. He is not interested unless he thinks there is a fetch going. I could try to build up tug into something more exciting though. I think he likes tug but I've kept it as a very quiet indoor game, so I think he's happy to play it inside but not outside. Thinking about this more broadly, it does seem like when he is off lead I'm interesting. I play recall games, throw things, send him for dummies and so on. When he's on lead, I'm boring (for all my tossing of treats and singing : ). And there is just a practical limit anyway of how long you can walk round town with a dog on lead playing tug...(even if I got him interested). I think my dog is a fun junkie.
Re: Charlie's July/August training I see your point. ;D I was thinking not so much playing tug but getting him so hooked on a ball in your hand that his focus is on you because it could mean a retrieve. If I had a ball in my hand Murphy wouldn't have stopped looking at it just incase whether on lead or not. Scout would be the same unfortunately I only have two hands none spare to hold a ball. :
Re: Charlie's July/August training Yes, I think the suggestion he gets a retrieve with his lead on is probably the way to do that. Now, he knows if his lead is on, a fetch isn't on the way (I'm not sure I'll ever convince him it is everywhere). I don't want to be dependent on a ball long term though - I mean, I want to be able to fade it out. Plus I want him looking forwards. It feels a bit like a bribe (just like a food bribe, only it's a ball). Well, whatever gets me passed those off lead dogs at first, I suppose.... I dunno though, I'll have to think it through a bit more.
Re: Charlie's July/August training Ok - a shot in the dark. My dog knows that a particular lead (a slip lead) means "we are on the way to work". Could you transfer this idea to Charlie? "You walk to heel on this lead for 100 meters - and then I PROMISE you'll get a retrieve"? The other thing that works really, really well with Poppy is to let her do a bit of retrieving, and then as a reward let her carry her special small dummy. She walks to heel like she was stuck to me with Velcro then. Just suggestions. Every dog is different - you have to find what works for you. And if you find what makes a hyped up dog walk to heel when a trainer is throwing a dummy - please let me know. :
