Well just what we hoped wouldn't happen did today, Charlie ignored the recall whistle and ran off in the woods which he hasn't done for a month, he also ran off across a field and wasn't interested in his ball :'(. Now we feel everything we worked for has been ruined by that b….y repeated blowing of the whistle that Annette insisted on . We don't know what to do now, we were feeling so positive before yesterday :'( :'( :'( We are supposed to phone her tomorrow to discuss moving forward not sure how to play it :-\
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Be honest....tell her the truth...particularly how disappointed you feel. Put the ball back into her court and see what she says? :'(
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( And agreement from me here for telling her what has happened and how you feel about it. You need to find a way to move forward from it. Hope you're not feeling too down-hearted.
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Agree here too, this is why you've hired a pro. Be honest about what happened and how it's made you feel as she seems to recognise the impact your emotions have on Charlie and she's working with you as a team. Be strong, you've made great improvements and can continue to do so
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Ah, what a shame. I wonder if it was the repeat blowing of the whistle, or actually letting him chase seagulls? I have a completely different dog, but repeating his recall would not have that effect. Letting him chase stuff would have a big effect though. I have had a no chasing wildlife rule from puppy day one, OH let him chase seagulls on the beach once - even encouraged him - and it took me a month to correct this to stop Charlie chasing seagulls on the beach and crows on the common, even though I had always been super strict otherwise.
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( [quote author=JulieT link=topic=5149.msg64805#msg64805 date=1396189191] Ah, what a shame. I wonder if it was the repeat blowing of the whistle, or actually letting him chase seagulls? I have a completely different dog, but repeating his recall would not have that effect. Letting him chase stuff would have a big effect though. I have had a no chasing wildlife rule from puppy day one, OH let him chase seagulls on the beach once - even encouraged him - and it took me a month to correct this to stop Charlie chasing seagulls on the beach and crows on the common, even though I had always been super strict otherwise. [/quote] Total agreement. My hunting absconder will relapse from her abstemious behaviour with me if the OH takes them out and forgets about interacting and keeping her interest in him. If she gets to hunt it seems to be the hunt itself that makes her want to do it again, it is so self-rewarding, and not my OH and his repeated whistle blowing.
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Will we be able to get Charlie back on track? If that happened today after 1 hour yesterday I dread to think of the affect this has had on his training. I wonder if we should quit with Annette now ??? I feel so MAD as we had just got him to a stage of milling around, playing with the ball and keeping us in view and now this One person can just wreck everything that we have spent soooo long building up. I can't tell you all how we are feeling today :'(
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Two steps forward, one step back with these absconders Helen. I've had exactly the same with Tarka. Take a couple of steps back, get his ball enthusiasm going again with wild exciting games, forget about steadiness just now, avoid wide open spaces and distant horizons and back in the woods holding the long line for a bit until you feel his self-control is back and his interest is in you and chasing his ball. Then drop his line again and carry on. I find as time goes on, the relapses get more and more minor and infrequent and the time taken for them to forget about the hunting relapse gets shorter and shorter. Chin up, you know your dog better than anyone but I would speak to the trainer for sure and see what she says.
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( [quote author=charlie link=topic=5149.msg64808#msg64808 date=1396189701] I wonder if we should quit with Annette now ??? [/quote] I think perhaps she made a mistake - Charlie should not have been free on the beach with seagulls to chase. I think you should talk it over with her, and see what she says. If she has a plan to get you back on track, in a way which you think will help, stick with her. You've been happy with other things, and she has helped you overall. No trainer I have come across has been perfect. I have had to speak up and disagree with something (in the right way) each time. I've always regretted it if I kept quiet (not to say I'm right, I'm probably not, but it is after all my dog). But that doesn't mean I can't learn a lot. Why not stick with Annette but resolve just not to do anything that you have reservations about? Learn what you can, but don't go with things you don't think are right for you and your dog. (I don't mean at the margin, go along with things that are different but don't really matter). The first trainer I went with told me to let Charlie off the lead. As a result I demonstrated I could recall Charlie away from sheep. I certainly didn't know that I could, and I think the trainer was surprised the sheep were there. It could all have been very different. I suspect that trainer might never forget to check for sheep in that field again.
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( So very sorry to read this Helen , I agree with the others , be totally upfront , let her know that you are cross , dont forget that you are the client and paying for her services . I`m sure that it can be righted Helen , try not to lose heart, not easy I know, hugs xx
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Helen for all you know Annette might be at home analyzing how that session went and devising a plan based on what happened already?it would be really great if she was...you've had a good session with great results,you've had a bad session with some rather unsatisfactory results....I would say ( unless your telephone conversation concludes otherwise) to try again with her ,at the very least to see if she can help with some of the backward steps that have occured for whatever reason from lesson 2.don't give up hope xxxx
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( What makes us cross is we did speak up and say we never repeat a recall whistle as it is just confirming to Charlie to ignore us, she totally disagreed and when Charlie was getting stuck on the mud flats she took my whistle and kept blowing it because I wouldn't, what were we supposed to do ??? It takes an awful lot for us to trust a trainer after past negative experiences and I just don't know. Maybe she is thinking about how it went yesterday who knows. David is going to talk to her tomorrow as he less emotional than I am and we are going to chat tonight about how and if we want to proceed with her. Thanks Lochan, that's a great plan and we will just take a couple of steps back and try to get Charlie back on track. Thank you all x
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Ah helen,bless you I know this will have given you a big knock ,sending a hug and don't let is spoil Mothers Day for you xxxxxx
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( If you've lost confidence in her, there probably isn't a way forward with her, that's true. [quote author=charlie link=topic=5149.msg64817#msg64817 date=1396191470] when Charlie was getting stuck on the mud flats she took my whistle and kept blowing it because I wouldn't, what were we supposed to do ??? [/quote] It still sounds like letting him off was the mistake. I would have repeated my recall whistle too - it sounds like the important thing was him not getting stuck?
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( [quote author=JulieT link=topic=5149.msg64819#msg64819 date=1396191748] It still sounds like letting him off was the mistake. I would have repeated my recall whistle too - it sounds like the important thing was him not getting stuck? [/quote] Yep, Annette knows the area and we don't, so with what we have told her about Charlie and his love of birds…...
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( I totally agree with Kate. You are paying for her help she isn't doing you a favour so tell her. I also agree with lochan. Go back to making retrieve fun and exciting. I almost said on the other thread you should train Charlie how you want. If having him raring to chase a ball you can keep his focus on you then you can use that to hopefully distract from birds etc. I'd ask her why she thinks it's such a bad idea to have him so keen to chase a ball. I can understand if you can control his desire to chase a ball then you should be able to control his desire to chase anything. In theory : but having something he's so keen on as a tool to keep his attention surely isn't a bad thing. eg if he was about to chase a bird but you got his attention quick and threw the ball in the opposite direction problem solved. Don't give up (I know you won't) just go back to what you did to get Charlie so keen on the ball. I know it's very disheartening to think you have to start again but I bet it won't take long for him to remember. He might surprise you and tomorrow race after that ball. Tell Annette though how hard you've worked, how disappointed you are and why she suggested a continuous peep and anything else that confused you. Make her earn her money
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( [quote author=charlie link=topic=5149.msg64821#msg64821 date=1396191939] [quote author=JulieT link=topic=5149.msg64819#msg64819 date=1396191748] It still sounds like letting him off was the mistake. I would have repeated my recall whistle too - it sounds like the important thing was him not getting stuck? [/quote] Yep, Annette knows the area and we don't, so with what we have told her about Charlie and his love of birds…... [/quote] Yes, it sounds like she made a mistake. But should you sack her? I just think no trainer is going to be perfect, and you still might benefit by having one but deciding you are still in charge of what your dog gets to do. It might work for you, you might still benefit. If you've lost all confidence in her though, there is nothing else to be done but part company.
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( Quick update. I have just had an email from Annette, saying it was an 'interesting session' and now having seen Charlie she has a clear plan of what needs to be done. :-\
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( I agree with Julie nobodies perfect and nobody has that magic wand but she needs to help you deal and progress with Charlie at home on a daily basis. Which to be honest since your first lesson with her you've been making amazing progress. What she told you then worked. I do think you should give her a chance to explain why she did what she did and explain how she thinks you can all progress. You call the shots though. Just because she says do this if you don't think it's a good idea say so and ask why. I'm guessing you had a good idea Charlie would race after the seagulls but because she suggested to let Charlie loose you didn't question it. I've made that mistake. I knew exactly what my dogs would do but because an 'expert' told me I assumed it would be fine. : Remember Helen we all take two steps forward one back every so often. I know better than anyone. I did say before you went if he legs it when your there it's a good thing so she will know how to help. She may have the answer. ???
Re: Charlie's Recall Whistle AFFECTED ;(;( [quote author=charlie link=topic=5149.msg64835#msg64835 date=1396194381] Quick update. I have just had an email from Annette, saying it was an 'interesting session' and now having seen Charlie she has a clear plan of what needs to be done. :-\ [/quote] That would make me feel better Helen,she's thought about what happened not just dismissed the situation xxx
