I've been trying to do some work on Charlie's off lead heel position. I find it a bit difficult to judge how I'm doing, so I remembered to switch on my gopro today. I think Charlie could be a bit closer, and my turns are really rubbish. They are good in the garden, but really rubbish here. I think I need to teach him to swivel round better....I know how to do that but just didn't finish it. Best get that done.... After that, we need to put in the time in terms of distractions and distance. Distance isn't too bad. Distractions not all that good.... [click pic for vid] off lead heel by julieandcharlie julieandcharlie, on Flickr
What about patting your thigh Julie to show Charlie where you want him? I practise that with my Charlie in the garden and he stays really close, it might work x
The garden is easy for me, Helen - it's perfect there of course . It's all about getting what you can do in the garden outside, that's where it gets tough. But it's great your Charlie stays really close, that's great progress. We definitely need to celebrate you strolling through the open countryside with your Charlie in a perfect off lead heel! You must do us a video!
I know it's about getting what you can do in the garden to outside, I do have mad Charlie to train who isn't perfect. I was just suggesting patting your thigh as a signal to your Charlie to move in closer and explaining that I have been practising this in my garden with my Charlie for sometime and of course not in open countryside. I think we all know my Charlie doesn't stroll through open countryside in a perfect off lead heel position, as I have said many times. When he can I would be delighted to do you a video.
Oh, sorry Helen, I misunderstood - I thought you meant patting your thigh in the garden worked to keep Charlie close in an off lead heel generally. I didn't mean to annoy you - and you have made such amazing progress with Charlie it wouldn't surprise me if you had him trotting round on an off lead heel perfectly!
And the other thing we worked on today was our hunt whistle. But....I think I've got a bit confused with this. I don't think I should be blowing my hunt whistle so much, I think I should blow it only when he is going to "strike" to associate the hunt first with that action of his nose on the floor. So I'll go back to that. It's very good in the garden, he is very keen to hand over everything he finds - and if he can't find it, he brings me back bits of the irrigation system, which I've explained to OH is bbrown 's fault! Not quite so outside though, there is still something a bit funny going on at the end of a hunt in him handling over things. Not so on retrieves though (he still sometimes legs it for a gleeful victory lap, but that's nothing to worry about - in my world anyway - he is just having a fun hoolie then). 2 vids together here (for comparison). One a blind into cover and he runs over the dummy (as per ) then I ask him to hunt. Then, just ask him to hunt (in a different place). He brings the first item back, but drops the second. Plus, he is a great deal less enthusiastic, pretty slow really (although he isn't a fast dog anyway - it's relative) on the hunt than on the blind. blind hunt by julieandcharlie julieandcharlie, on Flickr
It's tricky for you as you don't want to do marks(understandably). In standard Gundog classes for retrievers you start the hunt command as the dogs nose goes down for the dummy. You can see it, the dog can see it and you are totally associating the nose down with the hunt command. On the blind it's not clear if you can see Charlie when you're blowing your hunt whistle. If the dog's out of sight you don't know if he's in the right place or not. On the hunt bits I don't think you want him travelling as much as he is either initially where he seems to be almost on an outrun or when he's hunting. You're trying to get him to put his nose right down and hold a tight area. That's why we used that little triangle of longer grass in the forest and why I sat Riley up in the middle of it. Then hunt whistle and his nose goes straight down, dummies (or food) are by his feet so he finds almost as soon as his nose hits the floor. Once we've established nose on the floor I keep blowing my whistle gently to keep encouraging the work. When you have a dog that will maintain his hunting without background encouragement you wind that back and blow your whistle to initiate the hunt and only blow it again if he needs encouragement to hunt on. Obi is a bit different to Riley as too much noise distracts him from his hunt rather than encouraging him so it's a balance....but first is to establish hunt whistle = nose down I'm not sure if that helps or confuses.....feel free to ignore
No, it helps. I will go back to hunt whistle on the strike only, I think. Once he starts, he will keep hunting, although slowly (I'm troubled by this, it's very un-Charlie like.....but again I think it's confusion because he thinks it's about food - he thinks he is hunting for food but is unsure because he won't be able to find it). Hunting for food....I was thinking that hadn't helped me. I think the confusion about bringing stuff back at the end of the hunt is about previously hunting for food. We did so many "find its" for food that I think he thinks it's all about food.... I can try to sit him up more "in the middle" but he will dash off to hunt if I don't have hold of him....sigh....he has learned the pattern already.
Hhmmmm so the diving in before asked to hunt is a steadiness question I think so you may want to fix that first with a standard C&T approach. I'm not saying I can do this (at all !) but I've seen dogs sit next to a dummy, put their nose down on a hunt whistle and lift it up away from the dummy on a stop whistle! If you want to restrict him but have him away from you you could put him on a long line that goes back from him round a fence post and to your hand. Then you release that just before the hunt whistle.
That's ok, it sounded fine. But I can't just work on steadiness - each tiny step takes weeks with Charlie. We'd both go mad if that's all we did - so I need to find ways of doing other things too, really.
I was going to write something but bbbrown said exactly what I was going to say in her first reply to your vide If I am sending my dog to search an area I give him a different command "hi lost' which means 'it is in this area go and have a look', as opposed to sending him in a straight line on a blind. Note the tail action when Charlie was on the dummy, that was the time to blow your hunt whistle as you are teaching him 'hunt whistle, dummy/game there" though later you will blow the hunt whistle when he is in the area, I usually do a 6ft radius. If they go out of the area, stop whistle and direct back in, however, then you have the danger of the dog keep stopping and looking to you to help him (not you personally, perhaps I should have said 'one'!) if this happens, turn your back on your dog! I thought Charlie did very well.
I personally wouldn't blow the 'hunt' whistle when sending him off; like Stacia and Barbara I would wait to use it until he is right in the area. I also have a different verbal cue that means 'you are more or less in the right area'; the actual hunt whistle means 'it is there right under your nose!' He looks like he's really having a good time for the first two searches, but then looks as though he's losing interest a bit by the third time... It's a great little area to do searching training in!
I've never differentiated between hunt cues. Peep peeeeeeep means the same thing as hi lost to both my dogs. I use volume and speed of repetition to 'drive' them. I tend to use whistle more with Riley and voice more with Obi. I know plenty of people who do have more than one cue though though and often they go from "hi lost" as a general hunt to "there" as a it's right under your nose cue.
Yes, I will go back to only blowing my hunt whistle on a strike, I'll go back to that. I wasn't actually sending him off, or didn't mean to....he just ran over where the dummies were. I'll try to have him closer to the dummies (trouble is if he smells them he just dashes off....)
So.....I decided I have a perfectly good find it cue, and all I needed to do was translate my find it to a hunt whistle. I also have a perfectly good verbal find it THERE for it's under your nose. I'll think about translating that next. A few new cue, old cue, and we were much, much, better. Using old golf course bunkers by the sea (not been bunkers for decades though, it's national trust land now. ). Only having one item out helped too - he gets confused when I ask him to search the same bit of ground twice. I'll have to work on that. [click for vid] training by julieandcharlie julieandcharlie, on Flickr
