I need a straight stand - in front. Training it by front paws on a narrow board (which I need for lots of other things too) brill done in no time. Except for one little bit.... If you imagine I'm at 6 o'clock. Approaching the board from 12 o'clock to 5 o'clock, Charlie will align himself up straight so his bum is pointing to 12 o'clock. From 12 o'clock to 7 o'clock he won't and tries other things then gives up. He is starting to not approach the board from this side, as he isn't getting a high enough rate of reinforcement (so I've gone back to clicking for paws on the board). I've tried luring him but he still doesn't get it. Did someone suggest that bands on their back legs make them more aware? Should I try shaping back paws on a board or would that be just too difficult? He doesn't have great "where's my bum?" awareness...
Re: Clicker stand We have to train 'stand' for Gypsy too. I was taught to tickle her tummy to keep her upright and straight. It works
Re: Clicker stand Yes, I'll put some barriers down on the floor, that might help - in that he'll have to step over them or go round and walk up to the board straight. Well, I hope, anyway. He doesn't have a problem with standing still or upright, it's just aligning his bum so he is lined up with me that's the problem - and it's only when he has to do so from my left. For some reason, he "gets" that he has to swing his bum round so his body is aligned if he approaches from my right.
Re: Clicker stand I'm intrigued.....why do you need a straight stand? I would try barriers too, even a scarf on the floor might do it.....
Re: Clicker stand The main reason is because I've picked up this walking backwards trick again - so I want him straight so he goes back straight. Once he will put his paws on the board whenever he sees it (that's about now) I'll just move it back and bit and feed him in front of it, then so long as it's not too far away, he'll take a step back. That's the plan, anyway. But the other reason is because his delivery deteriorates when he sits, and I'm STILL clicker training hold. It's just a pain not to have a cue for a straight stand in front when I want to start the exercise. It has actually helped a lot - which was a bit unexpected - if I do the board exercise for a still, straight, stand, then move onto clicker hold, he keeps himself nice and still. He's such an ants in my pants fidget normally. Well, anyway, today he just "got" it, he just took a random step to the side trying to figure out what would get him the click, I clicked and he went "ohhhhh - you want me to move my bum round from this side too? Why didn't you say...." : ;D ;D ;D
Re: Clicker stand Your attention to detail leaves me waaaaaaay behind ;D I don't ask for anything other than a delivery to hand and my focus on getting that is becoming laser like. I try to leave nothing to chance watching him like a hawk as he comes in, giving him a good target for the dummy. After that I want him round and ready for the next retrieve so he rarely sits down. The labs in our group that are more possessive seem to naturally sit because their mouths follow the dummy up as it's taken off them. Riley's hold has always been light and his head stays down and some of the onus of good delivery is on me having my hand in the right place. He'll hold a bird or tennis ball much longer than a dummy but he still doesn't "present" with a lifted head. Maybe I should try to improve this but I'm not unhappy with what we have. All food for thought as usual So glad comms have been established anyway and the bum is on the move ;D
Re: Clicker stand Outside, I'm a clumsy person. ;D I fall over my dummy bag, I drop things that Charlie shouldn't have, I fail to prevent self rewarding by not grabbing my dog fast enough and so on. So in comparison, I love clicker training in the kitchen, with a chair and a table to put my stuff on. I can do it for hours, I love it - I love shaping stuff, I find it delightful. Most of it never makes it out of the kitchen though. ;D ;D ;D I sort of regret starting to re-train the hold now. I have to finish it though, because right now I've got Charlie tugging backwards and this has transferred to his delivery outside. So I've gone backwards from what I had, and now have to move forwards again. I had a half decent hand target for the dummy, but it was never better than half decent, so I hope the current effort will end up helping overall. It's painful though, I don't seem to be able to move forwards with it hardly at all. I have a 121 on Sunday so I'm hoping to get some tuition that will help...
Re: Clicker stand [quote author=JulieT link=topic=8990.msg128270#msg128270 date=1417702498] I love clicker training in the kitchen, with a chair and a table to put my stuff on. I can do it for hours, I love it - I love shaping stuff, I find it delightful. Most of it never makes it out of the kitchen though. ;D ;D ;D [/quote] You are my girl! I love that too....and it's a big reason why I fail at proofing ....when we get to move on,I fall apart and get sidetracked by something someone else is posting about and think I'll have a go at that :-\....and back we go to the kitchen where we excel again at something new : 121 with someone you really get on with is so valuable....hope it goes well x
Re: Clicker stand [quote author=Dexter link=topic=8990.msg128287#msg128287 date=1417709148] You are my girl! I love that too....and it's a big reason why I fail at proofing ....when we get to move on,I fall apart and get sidetracked by something someone else is posting about and think I'll have a go at that :-\....and back we go to the kitchen where we excel again at something new : [/quote] Sounds like it's you that needs the proofing x
Re: Clicker stand Proofing is definitely where all the hard work starts! Getting the behaviour in the kitchen, garden or familiar place is a doddle...repeating it on an exciting training field, surrounded by scent and other dogs is the tricky bit...
Re: Clicker stand I know ,I know I need one of those spreadsheet thingies ;D ;D ;D Everything that isn't right in our partnership is Trainer error for sure! In the circumstances he's a wonderful boy......in better hands he could have been amazing....but I'll always keep chipping away to keep his brain busy .....sometimes trying to figure me out is an activity in itself for him, poor lad
Re: Clicker stand Yay that he stepped sideways If our dogs were perfect at everything we'd have nothing left to work on and then what would we do?? Hope the 1 to 1 is a lot of fun and helpful too.
Re: Clicker stand Shaping is definitely not fun for me. It usually consists of Simba standing there staring at me (he knows I have a treat), then he will likely move to a sit, then he will go away and lie down. So when I was trying to shape the "bow" for example, I was waiting until his head dropped down a little bit or looked at the floor....yeah, right, I could wait for that until the cows came home. He knows I have a treat, why would he look at the floor? Same with any other behaviour. Shaping usually ends up as a whole lot of nothing and then he walks away, bored. Can't say I blame him, mind. :
Re: Clicker stand One thing you can try, Lisa, is just have a few sessions where you click for any kind of movement or behaviour at all. Not even the same behaviour repeated - just any movement of any body part in any way! He raises an eyebrow - click! He moves a paw - click! He tilts his head - click! With shaping, dogs have to 'get' that they have to try offering a variety of behaviours. First Simba needs to learn that it is good (worth his while) just to try different random stuff
Re: Clicker stand This is definitely true - Charlie has learned to do it. It helps if you have some cues that "we're shaping" - mine is that I'm sat down, usually in the same chair with my treats in the same pot and so on. Charlie knows this is the shaping game. It's also a lot easier at first with an object - a board, a box, a ball, something that the dog is focussed on - this is the idea behind 101 things to do with a box, I think.
Re: Clicker stand Julie - have you watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsvNvK8T1z8 - kikopup again !! to teach rear end awareness - dogs are like us in being right handed or left handed so correcting their rear end in one direction will be harder than the in the other, as you are finding ! but with this exercise you can break it down and practise her rear shifting in both directions. Once she can swing her butt on a wee stool then she'll be better able to swing to come in straight on the platform. I've actually just teaching the same thing with Tamber - to get her to stand on the platform in the front heel and side positions - its quite hard after all the sitting for gundog work - I'm doing one of the Fenzi dog sport online courses and the first week (this week) is standing on platforms. Then we have to start labelling the positions
Re: Clicker stand Hmmm, okay I will try a session of clicking for everything....it sounds kinda counterproductive but I can see the logic behind it.
