Hi I have been reading about clicker training, and it seems that if you have a dog like Charlie that is not food or toy motivated clicker training can take even longer to teach the behaviour you desire as you don't have an over riding lure. Is this true? We have been discussing that maybe we could use the clicker with Charlie for heel and retrieve work but only if sucess is possible, as we are doing lots of training but with very slow progress. Any input would be great. Thanks Helen x
Re: Clicker Training a non food motivated dog This is what I did with Murffi, who was not particular food motivated but a master of self rewarding behaviour i.e. self hunting, when I got him at 14 months. I did not feed him for a day, no regular food and no treats, and then I started clicker training in my hall without any distractions and his breakfast in a bag by my side. I trained for weeks, months in this way morning and evening every day moving from the hall to the kitchen, then the conservatory, then a fenced in area in the garden, then the garden itself which is open to a field, and eventually the field and other locations. He had to work for every bit of food I gave him, nothing was given for free. It does work, but it does take time and planning. You also need some understanding of the clicker training methodology and good timing is essential. The clicker is a powerful tool but I have seen a lot of people using it in a completely wrong way.
Re: Clicker Training a non food motivated dog Heidrun thank you. First off I would need to charge the clicker for a day or two? When you say you have seen it used completely in the wrong way what do you mean? Do you think it would be worth our while going down this route with Charlie even though we have resisted? Charlie too was a master of self rewarding behaviour We are still going with Total Recall and all our usual training, so is it ok to add another training method? Helen
Re: Clicker Training a non food motivated dog A clicker is not really a different method, it's just a tool for marking behaviour. I'd imagine that the techniques in Total Recall are all based on the same broad training approach as 'clicker training' is - marking, rewarding, shaping and proofing behaviour and the use of a 'positive motivational' approach. In my training I use a clicker and a marker word. Either way, both have to be used to mark the desired behaviour in a precisely timed way. Poor timing is one way that people use them badly (failing to notice when their dog has a win and losing opportunities to mark and reward improvements, or being too slow to mark so actually marking the wrong thing, or using the marker word or click as if the word/click was the reward (which it isn't, the food is still really the actual reward)). Another thing I see people doing is clicking multiple times, then giving one reward at the end (e.g. they want their dog to dog sit, a stand and then a drop so they click each position change but reward once at the end - that is wrong because a click should always be followed by a treat. If you click you have to treat. If you want to build up multiple behaviours in a row or chain then you gradually build up the chain but only ever reward the last 'link' ie. in the behaviour chain described above just click and treat after the drop).
Re: Clicker Training a non food motivated dog Thanks Rachael, sounds pretty challenging and getting it timed correctly is so important. What behaviour do you think would be a good starting point to get Charlie used to the clicker? I was hoping it might be useful for retrieving as this is an issue with him outside a controlled environment. Ultimately, I would like it to help with his focus on me/David and not the world. I have read Pippa's article on clicker training and know that if we decide to go down this route I must spend time charging the clicker which is straight forward. Helen
Re: Clicker Training a non food motivated dog Don't be too worried about using a clicker - just press the button when Charlie does what you wanted It's just like saying 'yes' or 'good boy' (but always with a treat to follow). What about starting with targeting your hand - getting him to touch your hand with his nose for a click/treat. To start with just hold your hand near his nose and click/treat for any nose movement towards your hand. Work up to clicking/treating actual touching, then add a word (I say 'touch'), then work on touching your hand no matter what position it's in. Another one I have shaped using a clicker is putting their head on the ground (when in a drop position). It's good for cute photos I remember a time when I stuffed up my clicking with my first Lab, Nicolae. I was trying to train him to pick up the picnic basket by the handle. I got him to hold the handle in his mouth pretty easily and then I wanted him to put some upward pressure on the handle. I was just waiting for him to do it while he stood there holding the handle and looking at me in a mystified way. He knew I wanted something but didn't know what. He tried grabbing the handle in a different way, lying down while grabbing the handle, sitting while grabbing the handle.... No click. Then suddenly he put his foot in the basket and, without meaning to, I clicked! He was thrilled - he'd worked it out (he thought). Of course I had to give him a treat. After that there was nothing I could do to convince him to not to put his foot in the basket
Re: Clicker Training a non food motivated dog Thank you Rachael, that sounds like a good place to start and shouldn't be a problem for Charlie as I taught him really quickly to 'touch' the bell on the door to go outside/inside ;D Funny story about the picnic basket ;D Helen x
