So I'm in the process of teaching some basic commands with my 4 almost 5 month old Lab. The first command I taught was a simple 'Sit'. This became his default position when being fed at meal times. (No command needed) Later I introduced the 'Stay' , 'Lie Down' and lastly a 'Shake' command with his outstretched paw. My problem is now he's not sure what to do before a command is even given. When I hold a treat for him he goes between sitting, trying to lie down, and frantically trying to shake my hand. All commands are UN-proofed and all learned in the last month or so minus the 'Sit' which is since 2 months ago. He's just super confused before a command is given. Frankly when all he knew was sit, that's what he did, and he would touch his nose at my hand for the treat. Now he's just confused as heck. Am I moving to fast? Too young? Thanks for the advice!
Are you showing him a treat before giving a cue? You need to fade that ASAP or him doing any behaviour will become dependent on the treat being there, and being high enough value. He needs to learn to work for rewards rather than bribes. It sounds like you’re a bit muddled with your training and that’s confusing him a bit. The positive thing is that he knows you’re after something and he’s trying to work out what that is. He has the confidence to offer you different behaviours until he hits on the right one. So, ditch the bribe and make it a reward. Then, make training sessions only about one behaviour. If you want him to only offer the behaviour when cued, then once he has the idea of what you’re asking, only reward the behaviour when you’ve given a cue (this is a better descriptor than “command”). If he gives the behaviour without a cue within the training session, don’t reward it. Of course, for the sit, you’re wanting him to use that as an uncued default behaviour, it sounds like. Which is great, my dogs do the same. It’s their way of saying “please”. You don’t want to lose that, so you can keep on expecting it for things like his dinner, but it needs to be calm, so you wouldn’t give him his dinner if he was throwing all sorts of other behaviours at you without you asking. My boy Shadow (who is three!) can get a bit like this when he’s over-excited, so I have to work on calming protocols with him when he gets ridiculous. He’s worse if he’s hungry so, for him, training is better done when he has some food in his belly.
Don’t let him see the treat. Leave them in a bowl on the counter. I used to put them in several locations around the house. Then give the cue and see what he does. That should help you take inventory of what he really knows. Then try to assign hand signals without a voice cue first when he does what you wish on his own volition. You could use a treat to lure him into the position you want but then he might go into that confused state again and do everything just to get the treat. Also make him look you in the eye before he gets the reward. You can always go back to basics before you move forward again. And only practice one task at a time. As for proofing, You basically have to proof each cue in all the different environments you try to use them in. A sit in the kitchen generally means nothing in the garden until you train him for it there. Then you factor in distractions and it’s a never ending journey. Lol. He’s definitely not too young to learn those basic commands. Stay can be challenging at that age when you try to maintain it for any amount of time. Start with short periods ( seconds ) and build on it over time. Remember to release him from the stay or he will just leave that position whenever he’s had enough.
I do see this , thus I have some hope yet. He's very confident and aims to please though for his own needs and wants. I'm going to try to phase out the bribes and see what I can manage. I already refuse to reward any unasked behavior as it stands, and that alone has alleviated much of the confusion for now... Thanks! Good to know your all here to guide me through puppyhood! This is EXACTLY where his last and somehow 'graduating' puppy class taught me. Hold the treat in one hand and wait for eye contact. This one is new, and I'm working on it! Thanks, I'm glad to start to see more and more advice connecting together in what I need to do! Yikes... I never thought that it would be THIS much work, but alrighty then. I'll start on different environments with the training. All of you people have been super great, and I'm beyond grateful. No doubt I will post more threads as I work through this, but think of it this way... Once YOU ALL train ME, for my puppy, I can train OTHERS for THEIR puppy just as your all doing!
That's the beauty of the forum. It's always gratifying when someone you've helped with advice sticks around to pass their own experience on to others
I agree with keeping the treats out of sight and in different places. I find it’s no use with Keir just having them in my treat pouch - he wail wait until my hand moves towards the pouch until he gives the behaviour, which means he’s being bribed, not rewarded. So the only way I can do it is by being completely unpredictable in where the treats are coming from. That works.
Brilliant little book to help you train basics is 'Train your dog like a Pro' by Jean Donaldson. A real step by step guide in how to train the basics, put them on cue and proof them. All reward based training, so as others have said, get that treat out of your hand and in a pot on the table/counter until you get the behaviour you are asking for
I know you know this Boogie, but simple solution is not to move your hand towards your pouch until he offers the behaviour. Best process is give the cue, dog performs, you click/mark THEN reach for treat. Wearing a treat belt you could turn it so the pouch is at the back so Keir can't look at it and wait for a hand movement. You can move for the treat once the behaviour is given and marked. The treat doesn't have to follow immediately on the click or marker they just inform the dog that a treat is coming
I know it - but doing it is another thing lol! In order to make things random (like the order of commands, which I very easily make a ‘pattern’ he can anticipate). I write them down so I can think ahead and make it truly random.
The doing is always the hardest part. I love to watch some of the 'professionals' on YouTube and spot the early hand movement - it is easy to do if the treats are in a treat pouch or pocket. My mentor always reminds us to video ourselves on a regular basis to prevent the 'hand' . Writing down a sequence is a good idea as it helps you to mix them up - preparation in training is always good
