Hello all, We are struggling to understand the usefulness of a crate and a playpen as the puppy grows older. We will have a space for the dog to sleep inside the house and also a dog house in the yard. We would like to leave the dog in the yard as a teenager and as an adult, while we are not home; however, we would like him to sleep inside at night and also be inside during the cold winter. We heard furniture chewing is a popular activity among teenage labs, do we need a crate for the dog to sleep without destroying our house? Can we just use a playpen (and how tall)? We do no like the idea of a locked in dog all night. Thank you all for your guidance. PS. We just got Pippa's "The Labrador Handbook" and it has been pretty useful.
Hello and welcome to the forum! In the UK, its rare for dogs to be kept outside (even if the weather IS decent) so mostly dogs are kept in the house whether or not the owner is at home. The crate provides a safe den for the dog and will help with potty training, as well as giving a place for time-outs when your dog becomes over-tired, just like a toddler. I never had a puppy pen, just a crate, and even when Lilly stopped needing the crate for safety of my furniture, she still chose it as a preferred place to sleep and hang out. Some puppies never get with the whole crate thing. so a puppy pen is an alternative arrangement. But so too would be baby gates confining your puppy/young dog when needed. I guess they are all different ages when they are "safe" to be left in the house unsupervised. Some of them may never be totally reliable he he
Hi and welcome to the forum. Nothing much to add to Jacqui's post. How old is your puppy? What's his name?
The purpose of a crate within a pen for a young pup is to allow the pup to move away from his bedding (in the crate) if s/he needs a poo or a pee in an emergency - this is much, much better than allowing a puppy to be obliged to soil his or her bedding. Some people manage with just a crate and are super, super diligent about taking the puppy out of the crate before it needs a poo or a pee. So, in my view, a crate is great for a young pup but only if you are there to supervise or return often. If I had to leave a small pup longer than it might be able to hold of for, and this might be only 20 minutes for a tiny pup, I'd use a crate and pen arrangement. There is no real advantage to the crate inside the pen except for toilet training - then it's very useful. For an older dog, my dog is 3 now, I use a crate inside a pen just because he is used to the crate being his bed and also because sometimes (if he is injured etc) he needs to be in a crate. No other reason. I also like to keep his crate training up though, because he sleeps in a travel crate if we go away to hotels and holiday cottages etc. and I like him to be good in a crate. I prefer a pen over just a crate because I don't want my dog loose in the house when I'm out - he doesn't chew furniture, but he's a curious and mischievous dog, and for his own safety I prefer that he is confined when I'm not there, and a large pen gives him a bit more space than a crate. I'm also not short of space, as have an unused room off the kitchen, so his large pen goes there.
On the height of the playpen - I use a 1m high pen. My dog could jump out of it, but he doesn't. I think because he has always been in this arrangement since he was a puppy when it was impossible for him to jump out, it just hasn't occurred to him that he now could. Long may that last....
Hello all, Thank you for your quick and helpful answers. We are still in the process of adoption. I think we understand how to deal with the crate, playpen, and time alone a little better now, and can plan ahead what to do when our new puppy gets home. We do not feel our house has enough space inside for the dog to be left on its own, but our yard is large, so we thought of leaving the dog there with a nice and cozy dog house. He will have more space to be entertained that way. Nevertheless, we are getting the playpen for the inside, to teach him were to go, prevent furniture damage when he is inside, and potty train him when he is young. Do you think the dog will be able to get used to two dens (inside and outside)? We will introduce the new puppy to the forum once the adoption process concludes. In the meantime, we promise to keep asking lots of questions
I am not averse to dogs being outside. There are some definite advantages if the place has shelter, shade, water, cannot be escaped from and the dog is not so lonely he barks his fool head off the whole time he is out there and annoys the neighbours. Let me also say it should be safe from neighbours and especially children who like to torment dogs. My childhood dog was heavy coated and suffered terribly from the heat inside in the winter but we did have problems with bad kids outside. I probably will not leave a dog outside alone again. I am not a fan of the way you often see crates used either. My Vet believes too much time stuck in a too small crate is responsible for the upsurge he sees in UTI, Joint disorders and neuroses. This same Vet likes dogs outside for the UTI problem, reasoning if they can just go pee or poop whenever the need strikes then bladder and sphincter muscles will not wear out in older age. LOL, ask any woman alive if her Doctor has not told her exactly the same thing, when you gotta go, GO. Dogs in crates often can't, or inside can't either, honestly, or won't. WE put the crate, door open, inside a big sturdy, home made pen for one. Oban was gated in our kitchen. Both puppies chose a place outside the crate for the bathroom need the odd time I did not get home in time, well away from their crate entrance. I see no evidence their potty training was delayed, crates don't potty train, YOU do. A caveat though, puppies can wreck your kitchen doing damage to cabinets and themselves if they eat stuff they shouldn't. We were lucky and I worked from home so could keep an ear out for mischief.
I don't have any experience of the outside living concept (at all.....I live in Scotland......we have blue , and less blue ) but I would think a crate and pen arrangement outside i.e cosy dog house and an enclosed run would be the equivalent, rather than free range of the garden - opportunity for digging/eating/jumping/escaping/etc reduced. And sorry #Snowshoe, those ladies with rather frequent irritable peeing patterns (mostly as they get older) get "bladder drill" to encourage them to increase their bladder capacity by "just hold off for 5-10 mins if you can" I kinda guess that is what we are doing with our puppies when we use crates.......not thought of it like that before though
Another possible downside of a pen is that some pups can learn to climb out of them! Twiglet did at 14 weeks! She was fine after that in just a bed and has never been a chewer (except her own toys, which she destroys!) she's eight months old now. But I will be using the pen for the next pup as :- 1. It's rare that they learn to climb out. 2. Like Julie says, they can piddle at one end if they are bursting. 3. I don't want to get up in the night! Here is Twiglet - she was able to climb right out with ease!
Thank you Snowshoe, drjs@5, and Boogie, those answers really cleared things up a lot and gave us peace of mind. Our yard is enclosed in high wooden fences, so no worries about horrible kids. The enclosed run is also a good idea, so the dog does not end up eating our flowers or the slugs that they sometimes have. Also, Twiglet climbing out is adorable, despite the mess she probably caused. Snowshoe, we were wondering, though, do you have a picture of your home made pen? We are thinking of building our own too using pvc pipes. Thank you!
No pictures, sorry. That was with Jet in 1993. The OH made it out of heavy wire, 4x4 lumber corners and it had a floor in it too, covered in linoleum. The sides were about 42 inches high. It was 4 feet x 8 feet and took up over half our dining room. LOL, we took it down when Jet was about 9 months old and almost immediately lost our dining room AGAIN when Jet caught a cardinal stuck in deep snow under our bird feeder. She did not injure it but pulled out enough feathers it could not fly. We caught it in a net, built IT a big cage which we sat on our dining room table so it could see out the east and west windows, hoping the sunny exposure would make it moult soon and get those feathers back in. Between Jet and the cardinal we had little use of our dining room for a year.
Haha, that is both, a sweet and a hilarious story. The measurements are good information though, we were thinking of something similar that is also going to take most of our living room space. I think we are good for now, but hopefully we'll meet again soon as I'm sure there will be more questions.
