Re: cruciate ligament Gosh Julie - well done indeed. Said it before, but saying it again... Charlie just doesn't know how lucky he is having you on his Team All sounding really positive - SUCH good news
Re: cruciate ligament That's all great. So pleased you are dealing with people who are good communicators, who are on your team, who are giving you all the info you need and who are extremely experienced. It's essential at times like these. Personally, I would always choose the specialist do the op. They will have seen all the weird and wonderful stuff and a straightforward op will be a walk in the park. Fabulous that your local vet is with you all the way on it though.
Re: cruciate ligament Yep I agree with Jacqui Charlie is a lucky lucky boy to have you...really glad you have the excellent information you need to make well informed decisions for your lovely boy....
Re: cruciate ligament Cheers from here, too. Glad you have got the info you need, and that you can have the best of both worlds in terms of vet care. Great news too, about the water therapy. Yup, Charlie is DEFINITELY lucky to have you!!! So glad things are starting to come together for you!!
Re: cruciate ligament Thanks all, very kind. A bit of a wait until the op now, with the main risk a hooligan event damages the meniscal cartilage but we're getting better at coping. I understand the nature of this risk better now - the risk is that the cartilage gets trapped between the bones and torn. This is why jumping, twisting and extreme movement needs to be avoided. But gentle, steady exercise - walking, swimming, is fine. Having that understanding helps in working out what is ok, and what is not ok, for Charlie to do.
Re: cruciate ligament So good to know that you have had such great advice and information Julie , its vital for us to have all of this and help us to fully understand the involvements , you are doing great
Re: cruciate ligament [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3657.msg41673#msg41673 date=1387265685] Thanks all, very kind. A bit of a wait until the op now, with the main risk a hooligan event damages the meniscal cartilage but we're getting better at coping. I understand the nature of this risk better now - the risk is that the cartilage gets trapped between the bones and torn. This is why jumping, twisting and extreme movement needs to be avoided. But gentle, steady exercise - walking, swimming, is fine. Having that understanding helps in working out what is ok, and what is not ok, for Charlie to do. [/quote] That's really helpful Julie - at least you know you can exercise him to some extent, to help relieve his energy a bit. What's the prognosis? Will he be able to do the mad jumping, twisting etc in the future, or is it always going to be a risk?
Re: cruciate ligament [quote author=Karen link=topic=3657.msg41689#msg41689 date=1387277510] What's the prognosis? Will he be able to do the mad jumping, twisting etc in the future, or is it always going to be a risk? [/quote] Arthritis will progress in the joint, regardless of how well the surgery goes - that is the case for all dogs who have this operation (and lots who don't with worse joints than the other excellent ones Charlie has started with anyway). For some dogs, this is slow and not really any worse than the normal aging process. Managing the return to exercise carefully, keeping weight down, hydrotherapy and physio to keep muscles strong and joints flexible, and some specialist joint supplements - for life, not stopped and started - will all help. Charlie will have all of this, because I'm lucky enough to be able to provide it, and thanks to help from an expensive lifetime cover insurance (I withdraw anything negative I previously might have said about the value of lifetime insurance policies :). Up to 90% of dogs return to "normal" and exercise is unrestricted. Obviously, we now suspect that the conformation of Charlie's knee joint is a contributing factor. This means the already statistical high-ish risk of damage to the second ligament is even higher, and I'm coming round to facing going through this with a second ligament as somewhat inevitable. The answer is not pre-emptive surgery (already asked). But, if we get passed that, and the operation(s) go well, then we will be back to normal - eventually.
Re: cruciate ligament Sorry - one more thing that might be useful information for others. Another risk factor to avoid is pet dogs being "weekend cowboys". That is, quiet, moderate, exercise during the week, with exercise suddenly upped at the weekend. The key is a constant level of activity that joints and muscles become accustomed to and fit to deal with.
Re: cruciate ligament Great info, Julie. Thanks so much for all the detail. We are all getting an education out of poor Charlie's knee mishap...
Re: cruciate ligament So glad you have made a decision and have support from your vet. Bet you are relieved you now know what exercise Charlie can do. Best of luck
Re: cruciate ligament [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3657.msg41693#msg41693 date=1387278840] Sorry - one more thing that might be useful information for others. Another risk factor to avoid is pet dogs being "weekend cowboys". That is, quiet, moderate, exercise during the week, with exercise suddenly upped at the weekend. The key is a constant level of activity that joints and muscles become accustomed to and fit to deal with. [/quote] Wow, that's interesting Julie and very useful to know, thank you.
Re: cruciate ligament Yes that makes sense about the "weekend cowboy" as the same is true for humans. There's a lot of guys around here who are desk-bound during the week and then play hockey on the weekend with a men's league and are at higher risk of heart attack because of just what you describe.
Re: cruciate ligament Julie, you are armed with great information from the professionals and you seem to have everything sorted in you own mind. I admire you and wish you all the luck in the world with your lovely Choc Charlie xxx
Re: cruciate ligament Hey Julie,how have you managed Charlie and his excitement levels over Christmas?hope everything went well x
Re: cruciate ligament That's really kind of you to ask, thanks. It was tiring, but everyone has gone now. It went ok-ish. When lots of visitors arrived, they came into the kitchen one by one and only took a step towards Charlie if he stayed sitting with his feet still with lots of C&T etc. They are an understanding lot, my family and friends. We had a couple of incidents - despite strict instructions to "ignore the dog, ignore the dog" a couple of times people walked up to his pen and said hello in excited voices. : Resulting in zebedee jumps but he was on his anti-slip padded gym flooring, so I hope no harm done. But mostly we were able to have him sit with us on a mat, on a lead. All the new rugs arrived, so when he was quiet, we were able to have him in the kitchen too. People arriving was the difficult bit. I am dreading the post operation period though. I'm working on his crate training, which is going well. But, post op, if I risk a bone fracture if he jumps up on his pen or a person, or counter surfs, or jumps on an armchair...I suppose he will have to be in his crate 24/7 apart from toilet trips. I'm seriously worried about what this will do to his mental health. I've been reading - somewhat desperately - about over excited dogs, trying to get tips and techniques. I haven't found anything other than what I'm doing though. I've been wondering if the over excitement is stress - so been trying a few calming techniques - they haven't done any good. Well, it's been nice to do puppy massages etc. but that's when he is pretty relaxed anyway - nothing helps in wild excited moments apart from training for them (which takes time). I don't think he is stressed really, I think he is just a big, excited puppy, on restricted exercise, who is over friendly, and over enthusiastic.
Re: cruciate ligament Our trainer (he is a Reiki practitioner) tries to get us to do a bit of "laying on of hands" for calmness, or at least did at the puppy stage. I don't really know a lot about it, and I guess is a bit like the puppy massage, good when your dog is already calm ;D Seriously though, he used to get us all to lay a gentle hand either side on both shoulder areas, not holding, not stroking, but just calming - I think you have to be calm yourself though, because its all about energy levels, and transferring your (hopefully) lower energy level to your dog. This is why it can be more difficult to train a young dog in a household with lots of youngsters, because the energy levels are always higher to start with. Not sure this is of ANY help at all, but just another thought. x
Re: cruciate ligament [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=3657.msg43123#msg43123 date=1388159297] Our trainer (he is a Reiki practitioner) tries to get us to do a bit of "laying on of hands" for calmness, or at least did at the puppy stage. I don't really know a lot about it, and I guess is a bit like the puppy massage, good when your dog is already calm ;D Seriously though, he used to get us all to lay a gentle hand either side on both shoulder areas, not holding, not stroking, but just calming - I think you have to be calm yourself though, because its all about energy levels, and transferring your (hopefully) lower energy level to your dog. This is why it can be more difficult to train a young dog in a household with lots of youngsters, because the energy levels are always higher to start with. Not sure this is of ANY help at all, but just another thought. x [/quote] It is helpful - any thoughts are helpful. I have read a bit about calming touches, it does work when Charlie is already pretty relaxed. I can get him to go to sleep by touching his neck and base of his tail, and closing my eyes slowly. Which is interesting. But this doesn't work when he is jumping around like a super charged spring. The being calm yourself ideas do help generally - I've been reading Turid Rugaas and picked up some tips. I'm much more aware of how someone stretching a hand out to Charlie can make him excited, and I'm better at reading him, and better at anticipating things as a result. I'm also better on lead walks because of these ideas, using only neutral sounds and praise. But it's the mad puppy moments that I'm struggling with still.
Re: cruciate ligament Maybe a totally long shot, but when Cuillin was wee and got stressed and hyper about something (and she would get very stressed when wee!) I used a Thundershirt on her a lot. Now, Cuillin as a super sensitive dog, so all her reactions to things seem times a million compared to other dogs, but putting a Thundershirt on her had a hugely calming effect on her, in fact I only used it sparingly because she almost went into a trance with it on, she would stand stock still and then after a wee while just lie down and go to sleep wherever she was. Never had any reason to use it on Brods so I dont know how it would effect a less sensitive dog, but I'll pop one on him over the next few days when he is hyper and bouncy and tell you what happens....
