Re: Crufts gundog day Romeo certainly was a showman when I saw clips of him always seemed like a very happy chap
Re: Crufts gundog day I wonder when those horrible show leads will be banned, I hate them pulled up round the back of the dogs ears, painful :'( Is it purely to keep the dogs head in the air or they can't walk their dogs properly as the owner of the Weimeraner exhibited as she was hauled along. x
Re: Crufts gundog day Same. I don't understand how they put all that work into ring craft classes and getting tier dogs into condition, but they can't spend time teaching the dogs to trot nicely round the ring without having to pull their heads up or drag them around.
Re: Crufts gundog day I haven't had a reply from Crufts, The kennel Club or Channel 4 about my concerns.
Re: Crufts gundog day Er....well...these "horrible show leads" are simply slip leads. They are no different to those worn by gundogs and pet gundogs and just pets up and down the country every day. Regardless of whether or not the dog can walk to heel. I'm not defending them, I have long hated slip leads and view them as nothing more than a rope choke chain and would be happy to see them banned save for those fitted with a limiter.
Re: Crufts gundog day Yes, I agree. I refused to allow the nurse at my vets' to use a slip collor on Chepi when she was highly distressed. Makes me mad just to remember it. I haven't had a reply to my emails from The Kennel Club or Channel 4.
Re: Crufts gundog day I'm very pleased with my limited slip leads from TuffStuff. I particularly like that because they're made from webbing they're very much like a collar when at their smallest so they're spreading any load across a broadish area. Also because they're limited you never end up with that tiny loop that you can't get over your dogs head They look like this for anyone who's interested... http://www.tuffstuff-ltd.co.uk/p/23/limited-slip-lead
Re: Crufts gundog day [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10100.msg148154#msg148154 date=1425841112] Er....well...these "horrible show leads" are simply slip leads. They are no different to those worn by gundogs and pet gundogs and just pets up and down the country every day. Regardless of whether or not the dog can walk to heel. I'm not defending them, I have long hated slip leads and view them as nothing more than a rope choke chain and would be happy to see them banned save for those fitted with a limiter. [/quote] They are different, the show leads are much thinner than slip leads, some of the handlers used normal slip leads but others most definitely did not. I have used thicker slip leads and only with a limiter.
Re: Crufts gundog day A slip lead is just that, it slips! It should be put on the correct way so that if it does tighten it is only for the fraction of a second and should immediately release. The show dogs were just 'hung up' and the slip lead was not used correctly. If it was slip leads they were using.
Re: Crufts gundog day [quote author=Stacia link=topic=10100.msg148207#msg148207 date=1425850909] A slip lead is just that, it slips! It should be put on the correct way so that if it does tighten it is only for the fraction of a second and should immediately release. The show dogs were just 'hung up' and the slip lead was not used correctly. If it was slip leads they were using. [/quote] I know we've had this conversation before, Stacia.... . You can't be critical of the "show people" without being critical of everyone else that uses slip leads incorrectly (I am equally critical - my dislike of slip leads has been expressed probably too many times on this forum! ). They are slip leads. They are NOT ok for dogs that can't walk to heel in all circumstances, regardless of whether those dogs are show dogs, working dogs, or pet dogs. Every traditional gundog trainer I went to (4 of them) wanted to correct Charlie for failing to walk at heel by a sharp backwards jerk on a slip lead - repeatedly if necessary (and it would have been necessary). That's the reality of gundog use of slip leads. It's often used as a punishment as much as a choke chain is used. Sure, if your dog walks to heel in all circumstances, slip leads are harmless and convenient. As are choke chains. Which is just a chain slip lead.
Re: Crufts gundog day I saw quite a few half check collars too. The APDT view which includes comments on slip leads and choke chains..... http://www.apdt.co.uk/about/half-check-collars
Re: Crufts gundog day I personally don't see why anyone would use any device that is capable of tightening enough to choke. It's too dangerous. A slip lead (without a stopping device) will choke no matter how it's put on. That's what they are designed to do.
Re: Crufts gundog day I've used a slip on riley for about 3 years and I've never come even remotely close to choking him. He had a decent heel walk by the time I changed from his puppy harness. I would think he's at as much risk from his collar which gets left on him whereas the slip lead is completely removed when he's offlead.
Re: Crufts gundog day I use a slip with a metal stop ring on it so it won't close tight on the neck. It needs to stop choking but also not be so slack as to allow the dog to back out of the loop. Lady is an expert at this. I don't think there is any alternative to some form of slip in a working environment.
Re: Crufts gundog day Limited slips leads are great - now Charlie is much better on his lead he wears one. Not in tricky circumstances though, then he goes back on his harness, or a flat collar if the risk isn't too high. The webbing ones from tuff stuff are really smart too. I heard that a group of positive gundog students recently took their (novice) dogs grouse shooting and every last one of them had long lines (when required) attached to harnesses. Which they politely declined to remove in favour of attaching the lines to collars when asked to do so by the instructor. So I think it's also about what people consider normal.
Re: Crufts gundog day You use a limited slip lead, Barbara There is no choking risk at all there. I would happily used one of those limited slip leads myself. (And I understand that the idea is to completely remove the whole arrangement when off lead so nothing can get caught up, and I think that's very sensible). I'm talking about the slip leads that have no limit to how much they can tighten. Most dogs would be at risk of lunging at things and suddenly tightening that kind of lead around the throat. And many people who use the full slip leads would use them to jerk to punish behaviour and therefore as a constant reminder to the dog of the potential for punishment*. *The equivalent of the 'positive' trainer who never graduates from using treats as a lure...but not as nice for the dog. Also, I find it interesting that at obedience trials 'positive' trainers are not allowed to take their motivator (treats) into the ring but 'aversion' trainers are allowed to have a motivator (choke chain) in the ring and around the dog's neck at that. Anyway, a slight diversion there!
Re: Crufts gundog day I've only just changed to a limited slip to reduce that last little bit of risk and I'm very happy about that. We used a normal slip up until then. I think limited slips will become more popular and hopefully much more common
Re: Crufts gundog day You've just got to watch out for the reverse-out-of-it manoeuvre that Lady is very adept at if I have the lead set a little bit too slack. ;D
Re: Crufts gundog day Yes Obi has already demonstrated that luckily we were in the middle of nowhere and his recall hasn't been destroyed by his teenage years yet ;D It does also mean I have to use the right lead for the right dog!
Re: Crufts gundog day An interesting Blog (and subsequent response to comments) on Crufts here: http://corawade.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/over-years-i-have-been-very-well-aware.html
