Curious...what breed mix/age do you think this pup is?

Looks a little like my old rescue Daisy Dawg who was Staffie lab mix and completely gorgeous!!

 

Lab x Boxer x Staffie from me. She's a lovely wee thing.

 

I would say Lab / Pitt Bull

 

I honestly can't see the boxer in this dog! Boxers have squished muzzles, completely different head shape, different ears, and a much, much longer and taller body shape, that is more houndy than squat like this dog.

I can't really see the bigger, much stronger bulk of a pit bull rather than Staffie either.....

Right. Now I've said that, @Emily_BabbelHund will tell us it's 99% Boxer 1% Pit Bull!

 

Hey everyone - thank you for so many answers! I love how you all jumped in!

First of all, I don't know what mix she is, so hopefully I didn't mislead anyone thinking I was going to reveal the "right" answer, when there is none. She is a rescue from Spain and currently being fostered in Saarland (near Frankfurt Germany/France border). Her pet passport says boxer/lab, but that's just the guess of the first vet who filled out her pet passport. Her age is also in question - her foster mom says she is 6-7 months old, but unless she was found as a tiny puppy, even that is just a guesstimate.

I was willing to go with the boxer thing until I saw a video of her running and playing. That little posterior of hers, and the way she runs, is precisely like my beloved pit bull mix Mama Jodhi (reposting my favourite picture of her and Brogan below, just because I love it). Then I talked to the foster mom by phone and as she described her personality and temperament, all I could think of was that it was exactly how I would have described Jodhi. So my vote is Lab/Pit (or Staffie).

The reason I wanted your opinion on this is that pits or pit crosses are even more problematic to have than Rottweilers. Pits are "1st category" dangerous dogs and Rottweilers are "2nd category" in many countries/areas including where I live in Germany and in Spain, and in countries where I travel through (France, Ireland). I'm not clear on the exact laws (I've never tried to travel with a pit) or if they apply to crosses. But what I wanted to see from you was what your PERCEPTION of her was... do people PERCEIVE her to be a pit/pit cross regardless of what she actually is?

I also was curious on what you thought the age was because currently she is way too short to be able to qualify as a mobility assistance dog for me. She is currently 47 cm at the shoulder and weighs 20kg. Minimally (using a modified harness) 50-55cm high could work. Between 60-70cm is ideal (Brogan was 65cm). 30-40 kg is ideal, but weight isn't as important as height.

So here's the quandary. She is currently a 5 hour drive away from me. I could make a very long day of it on Saturday and go see her. The foster mom has been quite patient with all my questions and has time for a Saturday visit. However, two worries: (1) will she grow tall enough? and (2) What would be the ramifications of her being (or being perceived as being) a pit bull cross?

For the height issue, let me just say that I love all sized dogs. If I could have two dogs (and assistance dog plus a purely pet dog), I would snap her up in a heartbeat. Unfortunately this is not where I am right now in life. The assistance dog candidate needs to come first, I need to spend a couple years accomplishing the training and certification, and only then could I possibly think of adding a second dog.

For the breed issue, I know what it's like to have a "category/list dog" because Brogan was one. But this is precisely why I'm looking to make the move to Labs. And this lovely girl aside, if I took on another "list dog", my heart is with Rotties in a huge way. There are all whole host of issues to deal with when having a list dog - not the least of which is making 100% sure your dog is safely on the right side of whatever the local laws are. It is literally a matter of life and death for the dog. Ironically enough, this morning I received a very well-meaning email from the pup's foster mom saying, "Well, she's probably not pit, she's more likely presa canario." Which is actually WORSE than pit as far as breed laws go.

So do I go see her and risk falling in love or just say that she will find a more suitable home than myself and that my dog is still out there? She is with a very kind foster mom in a part of Germany with no breed laws so will have a safe and happy life regardless. However, I just can't help but ask myself, "Maybe this IS my dog?"

I stink at decisions!

 

@snowbunny You SO have my number.

 

Yep - I agree with this as well. Dogs with a lot more "up" growth are much more gangly, where she is already pretty solid looking. I'd say she'll get more muscly, but not much taller.

 

Heh, heh.... yes, this was always the joke among my old rescue group. Every pit bull was a "Labrador cross". Unless he was brindle, then he was a "boxer cross".

 

Yes, no matter the mix, she is gorgeous and that head says "Lab" to me.

 

Ooo...I love Swissies! I only crossed them off my list after several breeder visits and realising there was no way I was fitting a 130lb dog under an airplane seat.

 

She still has some 'softness' around her face and head that says 'puppy' but Betsy still has this at nearly 8 months. I don't reckon on Betsy growing more than another cm or so upwards now.

 

Aww... Daisy IS completely gorgeous!

 

And what is wrong with that? In my mind, I can't see much wrong with you falling in love with her...

 

As she was bred in Spain, do they have many/any Pitbulls there? I would have thought she is more Boxer (body) cross Lab x Difficult decision for you, no point in rescuing her if she is then labelled as a Pitbull X as she travels through other countries and you risk her being taken away and destroyed.

I suppose it would take too long do do a DNA?

 

Personally, I'd give it a miss if there's a good chance - which I think there is - of her being unsuitable as a service dog. Her breeding aside, if she's unlikely to be big enough for what you need, then you're just going to cause yourself a lot of heartache if you do fall for her (which you surely will!).

As for the "list" dogs, I also wouldn't be prepared to take on a dog whose makeup was unknown to me, if I was going to be anywhere near a country with BSL. Imagine if she was taken off you for being a "pit bull type"? That would be devastating to any owner, and especially if she's your service dog. A dog with known parents is a different matter - you know what you're getting and what you have to deal with. Being sold her as a Lab x Boxer won't protect her or you unless you can prove it.

People's perceptions be damned, that's not what's important here. But making sure you get - and keep - what you need is paramount.

 

Listen to yourself.

If you went for another 'list' dog your heart is with Rotties.

On top of that she may not grow.

Be strong, don't go - she will get a lovely home, I'm positive.

Your problem? You fall in love too easily! (and I love you for it )


...

 

Yes, you've really hit on what is problematic for me. There is a very slight chance that she could be taken from me for being a list dog or mix. However, that chance is always there. Brogan was a different case as I made 100% certain that he was certified BEFORE coming to Europe. This gave him a high level of protection against breed laws across the board. It was always something I needed to stay on top of however - which countries/regions could be problematic and what the rules were. We couldn't, for example, even travel through Switzerland because his tail was docked (something I had no control over and certainly couldn't "fix" once it was done). Our very first trip to France, the airline employee who checked us in in the US took one look at Brogan and said, "You do know that the authorities in France have the right to put him down as soon as you get off the plane, don't you?". Horrible. And yes, he was right... the French DO have that law, but in Brogan's case his assistance dog status protected him. It still stops your heart (and made me want to punch the guy at the counter instead of calmly explaining to him that I understood the French laws). Lotta (this lovely pup) would not have that protection until her training was finished and she was able to pass her SD certification.

I travel pretty much constantly in and through countries with BSL. And @Stacia DNA tests are not used to determine breed, at least not to my knowledge (please correct me if wrong). In most cases it is simply perception of what the breed is, which is why I was so interested in hearing what everyone here thought she looked like.

@Beanwood that's in fact the question of whether to go to see her - because I surely WILL fall in love with her. Heck, I've been looking at her photo for three weeks and am half in love already. But I do need to be a bit logical, not only on the assistance dog side (the height question) but to protect her. And to protect myself if I fall in love but decide in the end that I can't provide her the right home.

I'm all a bit more broken-hearted and mushy than usual... anniversary of Brogan's death is coming up. It's getting me down and turning my already-dubious decision-making skills to zero.

 

Thank you, Mags - succinct, wise and absolutely on point (as usual).

 

I spotted this.....hmmmm? Cat amongst the pigeons!

http://www.dogsblog.com/frankie-80/

 

BSL - certainly in the UK, can take in any dog that just looks like a banned breed - "pit-bull type" does not even specify!