Hi Need some assistance as it is causing some discussions in our household. I have been teaching Vanilla the 'Stay' the way it is written in the website, ie:cue sit/down then a release command. No mention of the word 'Stay'. I have got this up to to a minute at home depending on her mood, most times around the 45sec. She never breaks as I release her before I think she will. My wife always wanted to teach the stay with the cue 'Stay'. I have explained over and over why I don't agree. We went to a new obedience class last Monday, and they tought the 'Stay' cue. This was done by saying 'Stay' then taking a step back and forth (after a sit). My wife afterwards said that was good as she always wanted to teach the stay that way. The class only allow one handler per session. We where going to swap each week, but my conern is that I am teaching it one way, and now my wife is joining i more in the training and wants to do it differently. Anyone had something similar during their training and how did you deal with it. Most import part for me is not to confuse Vanilla... Cheers
Oh boy, I may be an inexperienced puppy owner but I've definitely run into differences in training opinions. No serious disagreements (yet...), but I do have to start training a recall, as well as lie down, from scratch. The cues have been overused inappropriately (ie, without rewards, or with too much distraction) and they are now meaningless. I'm getting a whistle so that only I can use it until he's learnt a solid recall, and I think from now on I'll be keeping my cues unusual and a secret until I've fully taught it! I'm in a good position where I am in charge of almost all training, so my family doesn't mind that I withhold my cues from them until I'm confident Stampy knows them. However, I think it's really great that you and your wife both want to be part of training together, so I don't particularly want to encourage secrecy. What I do for stay is actually a combination of both methods you mentioned! I get Stampy to sit, I say the word "Stay" as I also learnt in training class, and move anywhere between 1m and 5m away from him. Then I say "okay go!" in a cheery way, and throw a treat in an exaggerated and excited way far enough that Stampy has to get up to eat it. I'm sure others will have much better advice, like I said, I'm really inexperienced. But I think you and your wife could easily compromise and integrate both training methods into a "stay" you're both comfortable and happy with. Best of luck
It's a really difficult one. My OH killed some of my cues so I had to start again with new ones. I use a whistle whilst out and she responds well. At home she's learnt to differentiate. For example, my OH will tell her to 'wait' but says it about 5 times in a row and she will stay there until he says 'go'. I get her to sit then say 'wait' once and she will stay until I release her. Lead walking is another one. Around the block (15-20 min on lead walk) she will walk really well for me and rarely pulls or lunges. With my OH, she pulls and pulls constantly, but the minute I take the lead she stops. OH gets frustrated at this, but he doesn't want to stop everytime she pulls and doesn't want to give her treats for walking, so I let them get on with it. I know for me and my daughter she will walk lovely.
Both systems of training are perfectly acceptable - there is no right or wrong as long as you use +reinforcement. A purist would say that the 'stay' cue is an unnecessary addition as sit/down should mean until I release you. On the other hand with a stay cue you train a hand signal as well which can help prevent your dog from breaking from a position when working at distance by reinforcing with the hand cue. Most important is to choose one training approach and stick with it as it is less confusing for a young dog.
Whilst I do agree with this, and think you should try to maintain consistency, I think dogs are also remarkably adaptable and seem to "get" what different people are after. I'm constantly trying to get my husband to give a actual cue, rather that simply repeating the dog's name over and over and over, but somehow, Shadow understands that "ShadowShadowShadow" means one of, "sit", "heel", "come", "over", "under", or whatever else J actually means. I also use "Shadow" as a cue to mean "away", when I'm training both Willow and Shadow together. He gets it To be honest, I'm not sure that using the word "stay" is damaging in this instance. If you reinforce the "sit means sit and stay" and your wife uses "stay", then it doesn't really matter - the "stay" is just rather superfluous.
While not disagreeing with you @snowbunny over the adaptability of dogs and their responses to different people's cues we all know that some dogs are more adaptable to situations than others. I'm just saying that from a practical training approach it is better to have one cue for a behaviour until it is well established - particularly for a young dog. Alternatives can then be added, superfluous or not
This is true but remaining relaxed and calm are also important. There will always be differences between handlers in the real world, try to come to agreement and be consistent but don't let the differences stress you out
One of the reasons I always advocate for working with the family not an individual, training the family not the dog - the dog is the easy part
I think it is all a question of priorities. If you want the ideal approach from a dog-training perspective then I think that the single cue approach is optimal. However, you may decide that there is more value in having other family members take part in the training process. Dogs are more than capable of distinguishing different cues from different trainers. I used 'Sit' as Harv's cue for the sit position. I found out some time later that OH often uses 'park your bum'!!! Harv responds well to both . Would a single cue have been ideal? Yes, probably, but I am happy because OH and Harv are strengthening their bond through training.
DOgs will often actually learn to respond to people differently. OH and I use different words on going forward after sitting on the side of the road. There is no issue with your wife using stay - while you prefer to leave the dog waiting. Our puppy responds better to stay when you want her to stay in position instead of leaving the sit/drop etc open ended.
EXACTLY us. So Coco walks nicely for me, and I enjoy our walks, and when OH has the lead he is stressed, not relaxed at all and finds the walk a chore.
I taught both versions because: 1. I'd rather a sit or down, means stay there until released. I find it easier that way. But the disadvantage is that you have to always remember to release them, a couple of times in the house I've forgotten, left the room and gone back in, and he's still sitting where I left him waiting expectantly to be released... 2. My dog doesn't like sitting or lying down outside if the ground is wet and muddy, or for other reasons that I'm not sure of, but he gives me this pathetic look which says "do I have to? I really don't want to". So, I don't make him sit if he feels uncomfortable about it and taught him to stay while standing, using the stay command. I've been really surprised that he's able to actually stay in the same place standing. I usually put a leaf or a stick down so I can check he's still in the same place, and he always is! He doesn't seem to be confused by this at all. Even if he is sitting and I say stay, I guess it's not ideal, but I haven't found it to be a problem. I also agree with the other people that said their partners do things totally different and the dogs work it out. Mine uses the wrong hand gestures, sometimes the wrong words, and he always seems to work it out. Good luck with your training!
Thanks all. I will see if I can't convince my wife to follow my lead on this. But if she is persistent on the other I won't push it. Cheers
It's inevitable that different people will speak differently to the dog. Our dog knows (or doesn't know!) what each person means and responds accordingly. I've been teaching Snowie "Go" to mean go ahead. So every evening, on our way up to bed, he must go up the stairs to the landing when I say "Go" and point there, and then he gets a treat. The other evening my husband wanted to try this out, and no amount of pointing or saying "Go" got Snowie to do anything except circle around my husband in complete confusion. And my poor husband was asking: How do you do it? What must I do?? He was doing exactly what I do, but Snowie didn't have a clue what he meant. Got me thinking that there must be so many other cues that we give, and also context -- Snowie knows this is our little game before bed. Anyway, I don't mind what each person says to Snowie, what cues they use, just as long as they're all happy. Our cleaner speaks to Snowie in Xhosa and he knows exactly what she means, responds appropriately to her cues. Snowie also knows his various names. I'll say "Snowie" and he'll look at me. I also say "Bobo" and "Mr Poops" and he knows they are all his names!
