I don't think the earth is flat. I don't think that all castrated dogs have problems. And I don't think the fact that there are no nervous castrated guide dogs tells us anything (any castrated dog that was nervous would be excluded from a guide dog programme). I have though, been influenced by a number of people who I think are experienced and have good judgment when they say that they think castrating male dogs can cause problems around fearfulness and anxiety and I don't find this hard to believe, I'm not incredulous about this - it does not, to my ears, sound like someone saying the earth is flat. I do start from a position that castrating a dog without any problems seems like a bit of a daft idea though, I definitely think that. There is so much information from the US that starts from the assumption that castration is harmless (so the challenge is to prove otherwise) that I can understand why that becomes the normal way to approach the matter. You can see this same debate but from the opposite starting point in Norway, where neutering of dogs is allowed only when "mandated by utility" or if it helps give the dog a better quality of life (castration of male dogs in Sweden and Denmark is also in single figures - no unwanted over population of dogs there either by the way). Here is one free summary that I found: http://sciencenordic.com/should-dogs-be-neutered It's quite balanced, containing arguments on both sides (so it's possible to pull out the ones you like ), across a range of factors (health and behaviour). I tried to look up some lectures and studies by the behaviourist quoted, Gry Løberg, but would have to pay for them. Eg this one: http://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591(14)00189-0/abstract
Thank you for the warm welcome - and what an interesting forum this is! JulieT - I told my son once I’d found an answer I was looking for online and he replied, “You can find any answer you want online!” Too true. But there are a number of studies on the ill-effects of early neutering, which can result in aggression in males, fearfulness in females, and noise phobias in both. I can dig them out for you if anyone’s interested. But that’s not to say that neutering at a later date will cause problems, or that it will affect all dogs. Guide dog puppies are carefully bred to be bombproof, and there are plenty of dogs who will stay much the same when neutered (my own dogs, for example - not perfect, just unchanged). People are much more aware now that neutering is not a magic fix-all. But if your young dog is showing any signs of reactivity or fearfulness, it’s a good idea to delay neutering. The decision to neuter my very reactive bitch was taken after consultation with a Veterinary Behaviourist who specialises in this area. I certainly didn’t want to do anything to make her worse - it’s a step that can’t be undone!
I agree that castrating has the potential to influence a dog's confidence. In the UK it is now not uncommon for vets to recommend that dogs of a nervous disposition be left entire unless there are compelling reasons to counter this. However, my main concerns over neutering nowadays are the increase in rates of various cancers, and orthopaedic problems in neutered dogs.
Interesting discussion. I've not had any of my dogs neutered to date; just never saw the need. But I can't think offhand of any castrated dogs that I know that are particularly nervous - on the contrary, the ones I know seem happy-go-lucky chaps. But probably they were confident dogs in the first place.
Sorry, I know that no-one thinks the Earth is flat Was just an analogy with some exaggeration for effect. The fundamental reason for desexing is to prevent pregnancies (plus, as an added bonus, it has been pretty clearly shown to reduce sexual behaviours in male dogs). I know we debate behaviour and health a lot on here but, still, it's really all about avoiding puppies. That is why I will always desex a dog - I don't want puppies in my future or to have my dog successfully mate a bitch. There is still only one reliable way to prevent that. Anyway...on the behaviour front....here are some articles I found through Google Scholar (and a look through a few applied animal behaviour and veterinary behaviour journals). I chose them based on the titles, not on the findings, so I pasted the title and link in here and then read the findings and summarised them regardless of what the findings showed. Admittedly these are only three studies (there was not a lot to choose from...), and they only use survey-based methods (so, no experimental designs unfortunately!) however none show evidence for a causal link between castration and resulting fear or behaviour problems. Effects of castration on problem behaviors in male dogs with reference to age and duration of behavior (1997) http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9227747 57 dogs castrated at 2 years of age, all had behaviour problems prior to castration. Phone interviews done with owners. Found that castration had no impact on fear or aggression behaviour. Urine marking, roaming and mounting behaviours improved post-castration in a third to half the dogs. Fear-related behaviour of dogs in veterinary practice (2009) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109002330800169X 135 dogs observed in a vet practice. 78.5% showed fear behaviours. Factors that were predictive of fear behaviours were age (animals under 2 less fearful), gender (males less fearful) and previous experience (only positive past experience = less fearful). Weight of the dog and castration status were not related to fear behaviours. Effects of breed, sex, and neuter status on trainability in dogs (2005) http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bloomsbury/azoos/2005/00000018/00000003/art00002 1563 dogs assessed for 'trainability' (defined as dog's willingness to attend to its owner and obey simple commands, combined with a high “fetch” motivation, and low levels of distractibility and/or resistance to correction) using a questionnaire. Neutering did not affect trainability in females (regardless of breed etc) and did not have any effect in males dogs except for Shetland Sheepdogs where castration improved trainability [but they took a lot of measures so this could just be a random finding...basically castration was not related to 'trainability']. This is not about behaviour, but I'll add it anyway: Early-age neutering of dogs and cats in the United States (a review) (2001) http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/11787153 I'll just paste part of the abstract: This review discusses early-age neutering in the United States, and includes the review of scientific studies that have evaluated this procedure in puppies and kittens. Early-age neutering does not stunt growth in dogs or cats (a once-held belief), but may alter metabolic rates in cats. The anaesthetic and surgical procedures are apparently safe for young puppies and kittens; morbidity is lower and recovery is faster than in adult animals. To date, adverse side effects are apparently no greater in animals neutered at early ages (7 weeks) than in those neutered at the conventional age (7 months).
Fair point, but Guide Dogs breed 1400 pups a year, half of which will be male and castrated at 12 months. In their long experience, if they found that castration can lead to behavioural problems, they wouldn't do it. It costs £50,000 to train and support one guide dog so they have good reason to keep very careful track of every possible reason for withdrawal. PS - they are not born bombproof, it's careful socialisation and training which does that
I do think that the best reason to promote the castration of dogs is avoiding unwanted puppies, yes. I think this is the reason why pet charity, vets and Government promote it as the responsible thing to do. I do wonder though if it is the most important thing. Is a significant unwanted pet dog population caused by irresponsible pet owners failing to supervise their dogs, or is it caused by puppy farming and the deliberate breeding of dogs in high volume where there are inadequate controls? If we look around Europe, and this is just based on my perception (I don’t know the figures for the unwanted pet population in different countries) there does not appear at least to be a high correlation between low levels of neutering and unwanted pets. Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland do not have a culture of neutering pets and they also do not seem to have a problem with unwanted pets. Dogs are expensive to buy, animal welfare legislation is effectively enforced – enforcement is well funded, diligent and committed – and there are strict controls around the breeding of dogs and taxes on the ownership of dogs. In contrast, in Ireland, there is heavy promotion of the benefits of neutering, all pet charities neuter, subsidised schemes are available, yet the over population of unwanted dogs is very significant (I understand). I have read that this is because there are no controls on the breeding of dogs, puppy farms are numerous and dogs cheap to obtain, and there is very little enforcement of animal welfare and control legislation.
I was also wondering today if a simple 'you must neuter' policy (as we have in Australia) is that effective. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't very effective at all - I agree that monitoring, enforcement, a culture of dog control/responsible ownership, conditions on litter registration etc are all needed too, to have any real impact on the huge number of unwanted pups and dumped pets. Without all that supporting regulatory and cultural infrastructure, irresponsible people will still avoid the law and will allow their dogs to produce unplanned litters and people will still operate puppy farms. If I did think, or clear evidence emerged, that desexing would have a highly probable adverse health outcome for my dog, I would of course be less inclined to desex. However, in my case I'm would still be living in a world where being entire would exclude my dog (male or female) from daycare which, because I work, I need to use. In countries where it's illegal to desex a dog I wonder it it's also illegal to geld a colt. S'pose Google would tell me that!
Well I couldn't find anything about horses but apparently in Norway it is illegal to castrate a reindeer with your teeth.
I was just thinking along those same lines as I read Karen's post on the tests for Poppy - they must add hugely to the cost of properly bred dogs, so the financial incentives to avoid them and produce dogs in puppy farms is high. Bad breeders make money, good breeders do not. That's mad...
Yeah, until I read that update from Karen I had not considered that a highly regulated environment (where breeders bear the costs) would make the dodgy approach even more financially attractive for both sellers and buyers. But of course it does.
It isn't often I disagree with Rachael, but I disagree fundamentally with this premise. For many reasons. Including that proper supervision of dogs is an entirely effective way to prevent pregnancy. And that anyone who cares enough about preventing unwanted pregnancies and is responsible enough about their role in the reproductive capacity of their dog to have it neutered for this reason, is exactly the sort of owner that is not going to leave their entire male dog unsupervised with a bitch on heat. Operating on a dog to prevent it reproducing is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in my view, it is a completely over the top solution to a simple problem. An alternative and equally effective solution is supervise your dogs, and not to exercise bitches on heat in public places. If there were no adverse effects to neutering it would be less of an issue, but there are. And increasingly serious health disadvantages to neutering, have recently come to light. There are health benefits to neutering too, so the 'balance' needs to be taken into account, and this balance may vary from breed to breed and from dog to dog. But at the present time, the balance for male dogs is increasingly weighted towards not neutering as being the better option (health wise). There are two large and important studies that have recently taken place on this issue that show (in these two breeds at least) the neutered dogs are significantly more likely to suffer from orthopaedic problems and from cancer I think it is important that these studies are considered by anyone considering lopping off their dog's testicles. here they are: A study on 2500 Hungarian Vizslas A study on 759 Golden Retrievers The vizsla study also showed an increase in behavioural problems in dogs neutered early, including fearful behaviour. And the younger the dogs were neutered, the greater the chances of developing cancer or behavioural problems. These were not 'small' differences' for example three times more early neutered golden retrievers developed lymphosarcoma. For balance, I should add that a study comparing Labradors with GRs showed that the effects of neutering were not as dramatic. This is not a criticism by the way of people that chose to neuter their dogs, and this information has only been quite recently available. But I really do think we should now be considering these studies seriously before lopping bits off our dogs. Edited to add a link to: the full Viszla study
Here you go, Pippa! • Early age gonadectomy was associated with an increased incidence of noise phobias and undesirable sexual behaviors, such as mounting. • Significantly more behavioral problems in spayed and neutered bitches and dogs, with fearful behavior being most common in spayed bitches and aggression in neutered dogs. • In a prospective study, German Shepherd Dogs spayed between 5-10 months of age had significantly increased reactivity. Chris Zink, DVM, PhD Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development. JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203. Glickman L, Glickman N, Thorpe R. The Golden Retriever Club of America National Health Survey 1998-1999. http://www.grca.org/healthsurvey.pdf Serpell JA. Measuring behavior and temperament in dogs. American Kennel Club Canine Health Foundation Biennial National Parent Club Canine Health Conference. 2005. St. Louis, MO. p. 46-8. Duffy DL, Serpell JA. Non-reproductive effects of spaying and neutering on behavior in dogs. Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-surgical Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control. 2006. http://www.acc- d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Session%20I.pdf Kim HH, Yeon SC, Houpt KA, Lee HC, Chang HH, Lee HJ. Effects of ovariohysterectomy on reactivity in German Shepherd dogs. Vet J 2006;172:154-9. Hopkins, S. G., Schubert, T. A., Hart, B. L. Castration of adult male dogs: effects on roaming, aggression, urine marking, and mounting. JAVMA 1976;168:1108-10. Neilson JC, Eckstein RA, Hart BL. Effects of castration on problem behaviors in male dogs with references to age and duration of behaviors. JAVMA 1997;211:180-2. Evaluation of the risk and age of onset of cancer and behavioral disorders in gonadectomized Vizslas M. Christine Zink, DVM PhD Parvene Farhoody, MA Samra E. Elser, BS Lynda D. Ruffini Tom A. Gibbons, MS Randall H. Rieger, PhD http://www.caninesports.com JAVMA, Vol 244, No. 3, February 1, 2014 http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/ne...iour-got-do-it Chirag Patel, BSc (Hons), CPDT-KA, DipCABT, CBATI Neutered dogs and spayed bitches are at higher risk of developing thyroid-related behavioural problems. Jean Dodds, DVM, The Canine Thyroid Epidemic, 2011
I'm a bit depressed by looking at these studies (for either argument, I'm not making a point some are better than others). They seem very low quality. I note one finding is that castrated males tend to lick people more often than intact males. Can't have Charlie done, then - no ear would be safe!
