Thanks for digging those out Beverley. Just to clarify - I think what we are looking for here, are references to scientific studies that specifically support the theory that male dogs are more likely to be fearful or reactive if castrated. As it is this (fairly recent) thinking that is being questioned in this thread. Several of those references are opinion pieces, or don't investigate the question of fearful behaviour. I think that the Serpell and Duffy study (which included 281 Labradors) is interesting though. And I assume this is the study that has formed the basis of the current view. A view which is supported in some respects by the recent Vizsla study that I linked to above.
This is what we have so far (ranked in order of sample size high to low) I have also included the two student MSc studies that Kate (Beanwood) and I have discussed before (in Bensons log). [TABLE="border: 1, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"] [TR] [TD]Title[/TD] [TD]Date[/TD] [TD]Method[/TD] [TD]Sample size[/TD] [TD]Results[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Farhoody, P. Behavioral and Physical Effects of Spaying and Neutering Domestic Dogs. Summary of findings detailed in Masters thesis submitted to and accepted by Hunter College in May 2010.[/TD] [TD]2010[/TD] [TD]C-BARQ questionnaire Behavioral characteristics of intact male and female dogs were compared with those of four groups of neutered dogs: those neutered at or before 6 months, between 7 and 12 months, between 13 and 18 months, and after 18 months.[/TD] [TD]10,839 dogs[/TD] [TD]There are significant correlations between neutering dogs and increases in aggression, fear and anxiety, and excitability, regardless of the age at which the dog was neutered. There were also significant correlations between neutering and decreases in trainability and responsiveness to cues. The overall trend seen in all these behavioral data was that the earlier the dog was neutered, the more negative the effect on the behavior.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Evaluation of the risk and age of onset of cancer and behavioral disorders in gonadectomized Vizslas[/TD] [TD]2014[/TD] [TD]Retrospective cohort study[/TD] [TD]2,505 Vizslas born between 1992 and 2008[/TD] [TD]Dogs gonadectomized at ≤ 6 months, between 7 and 12 months, or at > 12 months of age had significantly increased odds of developing fear of storms, compared with the odds for sexually intact dogs.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering on Behavior in Dogs Deborah L. Duffy, Ph.D., and James A. Serpell, Ph.D[/TD] [TD]2006[/TD] [TD]C-BARQ questionnaire (which appears to have been assessed for effectiveness)[/TD] [TD]Random sample of 1,552 (and an online internet survey of 6,000 dogs)[/TD] [TD]For most behaviors, spaying/neutering was associated with worse behavior, contrary to conventional wisdom. A few behaviors (e.g., energy level, urine marking) were reduced in spayed/neutered dogs. The effects of spaying/neutering are often specific to certain breeds and are not always equivalent between sexes.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Effects of breed, sex, and neuter status on trainability in dogs[/TD] [TD]2005[/TD] [TD]Owner assessment for trainability using a standardized questionnaire (C-BARQ©).[/TD] [TD]1563[/TD] [TD]Neutering was not associated with any differences in trainability in female dogs in any breed, but was associated with positive effects on trainability in male Shetland sheepdogs.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Fear-related behaviour of dogs in veterinary practice[/TD] [TD]2009[/TD] [TD]Dogs observed at the vets office and the owners interviewed using a questionnaire[/TD] [TD]135 dogs[/TD] [TD]This study did not find that castrated dogs were more fearful of vets than other dogs - but a very high percentage of all dogs were fearful.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Effects of castration on problem behaviors in male dogs with reference to age and duration of behavior.[/TD] [TD]1997[/TD] [TD]Telephone owner questionnaire no details of methodology[/TD] [TD]57 male dogs > 2 years old at the time of castration that had > or = 1 of the targeted problem behaviors.[/TD] [TD]This study was looking for an improvement in an existing problem behaviour following castration and didnt find any (apart from marking, mounting, roaming etc). It did not report any reactivity problem getting worse (it is not clear the study looked for this though). [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gonadectomy in immature dogs: effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development.[/TD] [TD]1991[/TD] [TD]No method for evaluation was described in the abstract.[/TD] [TD]31[/TD] [TD]It was concluded that with respect to skeletal, physical, and behavioral development, the effect of neutering pups at 7 weeks old was similar to that of neutering pups at 7 months old.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Chemical and Surgical Castration of Male Dogs: Behavioral Effects Research Project Veterinary Medicine Drs. E.R.Steur Studentnumber: 3052052[/TD] [TD]October 2010 March 2011[/TD] [TD]Their behavior was assessed on the day of, but prior to treatment and 4-5 months after treatment by means of a behavior test and a questionnaire that was filled out by the dog-owners.[/TD] [TD]Twenty-three dogs where chemically castrated using implants which slowly release the GnRH agonist Deslorelin (Suprelorin®), and 18 dogs were surgically castrated.[/TD] [TD]No significant changes in fear/insecurity and aggression were seen after treatment using the behavior tests in both groups.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Effects of ovariohysterectomy on reactivity in German Shepherd dogs[/TD] [TD]2006[/TD] [TD]Testing reactions to strange humans - digitally video recorded 4-5 months after treatment and analysed for treatment effects on reactivity[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]Ovariohysterectomy of 5-10 month old German Shepherd bitches specifically, and perhaps bitches of any breed generally, may induce an increase in reactivity.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] For completeness (but these are not relevant [TABLE="border: 1, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"] [TR] [TD]Title[/TD] [TD]Date[/TD] [TD]Method[/TD] [TD]Sample size[/TD] [TD]Results[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Early-age neutering of dogs and cats in the United States (a review)[/TD] [TD]2001[/TD] [TD]Appears to be a literature review[/TD] [TD]Not stated in the abstract[/TD] [TD]No clear findings stated on behaviour but to date, adverse side effects are apparently no greater in animals neutered at early ages (7 weeks) than in those neutered at the conventional age (7 months).[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]The GRCA Electronic Health Survey at 1 Year: Data on Longevity and Cancer[/TD] [TD]This is not a scientific study[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Serpell JA. Measuring behavior and temperament in dogs[/TD] [TD]This appears to be the development of a questionnaire[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Castration of adult male dogs: effects on roaming, aggression, urine marking, and mounting[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD]No information on behaviour (apart from those associated with testosterone) given in the abstract[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
For many reasons.Including that proper supervision of dogs is an entirely effective way to prevent pregnancy. And that anyone who cares enough about preventing unwanted pregnancies and is responsible enough about their role in the reproductive capacity of their dog to have it neutered for this reason, is exactly the sort of owner that is not going to leave their entire male dog unsupervised with a bitch on heat. Operating on a dog to prevent it reproducing is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in my view, it is a completely over the top solution to a simple problem. An alternative and equally effective solution is supervise your dogs, and not to exercise bitches on heat in public places. I support that view 110%
I have made this sticky, so that this important information does not disappear in the depths of the forum
An interesting point was made by Mags as to why Guide Dogs are routinely neutered if it is not in the best interests of the dog. I think that the answer there is probably that sometimes other priorities over-ride the needs of the individual dog. A blind person for example cannot reasonably be expected to put their life on hold for three to four weeks twice a year, because their dog can't go out.
Might it also be the case, since as one study points out that there are differences by breed, that the guide dog breeding programme - if breeding for successful guide dogs that are all neutered - has managed to find lines more robust to being neutered eg the GR/Lab crosses?
As an owner of a male dog I can't rely on bitch owners not to let them run free in public places. As an example, at Flyball competitions all entire bitches have gone checked by an official before racing to demonstrate that they're not in season. Routinely, some are. And this is a relatively responsible cohort. I have my dog in public off-lead places often (dog park, dog club, day care, competitions, beach) and now and then I'll come across off lead entire bitches in season. As their dog has run over to mine I've had owners ask me if my dog is desexed and when I've said yes they've said 'oh good, because she's in season'. It's crazy, but it does happen. Aside from that, to use daycare my dog has to be desexed (over 7 months).
In relation to these studies, a number (including the Golden Retriever and Viszla studies) are retrospective, in that dogs were not randomly assigned to the 'neutered versus not neutered' and to the 'neutered under or over 12 months' categories. Any other variable that has not been controlled for could have affected those outcomes. Perhaps owners who neuter 'early' are also more likely to notice signs of joint disease earlier or seek help with it earlier. The point is, these are not well designed studies - they are just data mining exercises. They point to things worth looking at more rigorously, but that is probably all. The study that Gypsy is part of and that the UK Guide Dog association is doing on 6 month vs 12 month old desexing is a better designed study as dogs are assigned to groups before the fact, and the groups are monitored in parallel. Unfortunately there will be no comparison with an un-desexed cohort, but I guess that wasn't possible for Guide Dogs.
None of the studies are ideal - and some seem really a bit doubtful. I'm not sure though that the worst thing about them is that they are retrospective. If the sample is large enough and the data collected accurate I think it's unlikely there is an unexplained variable that explains all the differences - it's possible of course. I think that the collection of the results from the owners is the main problem - for example, the data in the Viszla study about even whether or not the dog had cancer was based on owner reports. I was going to say that I thought this might be even worse for the reported behaviours. But then, before I said that, I thought I would go and look up this C-BARQ questionnaire, since a fair bit of work has gone into its development. I found I could complete it for Charlie and get the results compared to breed average. Great. So I did that. I tried to be "straight" and very diligent in completing it - it told me more or less what I expected, although it's interesting that there are a couple of results that I was surprised by (I'm quite please by that, as it means I wasn't too biased in my answers to get the results that reinforced what I think about my dog). It's quite good fun! It's here for those interested: http://vetapps.vet.upenn.edu/cbarq/index.cfm (it says that it is only available for a limited time to pet owners - so hurry up if you want a go). Here is Charlie. CBARQ by julieandcharlie julieandcharlie, on Flickr
Sorry, in banging on about the C-BARQ stuff, I forgot to say - it would be very, very, easy to skew the results in the answers to the questionnaire. So, for example, did the owners with intact dogs (some or many, like me, against the routine neutering of dogs - that's why I have an intact dog) who completed this for a study on the pros and cons of neutering dogs have a view on what the outcome should be? In which case, I think those with intact dogs are more likely to skew the results to present their dog in a favourable light. This may be inadvertent, but is quite likely I think.
The large sample definitely doesn't do anything to rule out third factors that are correlated with being in a neuter early/late/entire category and with a diagnosis occurring at a certain time (were timeframes for diagnosis occurring controlled for? Standardised health check using the same criteria should've all been done at the same age across the whole group in a well designed study). Basically those studies would not stand up to scrutiny if they were looking at the impacts of surgical intervention on human outcomes. The same standards of good science should apply to conclusions about animal health. I will have to check out the questionnaire Thanks for the link.
This is true. In an ideal world we'd be able to take a large number of dogs, neuter half of them and fit them with 'fake testicles' (yes they do exist ) and randomly allocate the dogs to different families. Then have scientists survey the dogs at regular intervals throughout their lives. But I don't think that is going to happen any time soon. I also don't think we can dismiss the data thrown up by the studies above. Especially as the data is not supporting surgical intervention, but the contrary. Should our starting point not be "not operating on a dog unless it is necessary"? I think this is a very difficult topic, especially for those living in countries where neutering is routine. And I totally understand why it is virtually essential to neuter your dog if you need to use day care and that is the requirement for attendance I guess my feeling is that I just hope people give it some thought, and weigh up the cons as well as the pros to neutering before they take this step. Because it is a big step and not something I believe we should do to a dog without good reason, whatever that reason may be. I have found this discussion really interesting though, and I am putting up an article later today, summing up the latest evidence, such as we have, in what I hope is an objective way
Yes, I think people should approach this in a considered way. There are welfare considerations, for sure. I'm not wanting to dismiss the studies, just wanting to point out that they may throw up hypotheses, but due to the limits of the designs can't be conclusive. They are low quality studies. If you take a big data set with a lot of categories to trawl through (breeds) and lots of diseases to choose from you're bound to find something significant, especially if you set a fairly easy statistical hurdle of p=0.05, as at least one of them did if memory serves. While it's difficult and expensive to do a proper experimental study with standardised measures it wouldn't be too hard to improve on the ones that have just examined databases retrospectively, by just using a repeated measures design. Just identify a sample, take baseline measures of a range of health or behavioural factors at X months old, then repeat measures at XX months old. Some will have been neutered by XX months, some won't. Compare measures taken at X with those taken at XX for each group. That way you've held age constant, hypothesized in advance about the health outcomes that might be affected, used common measures and have measured everything in the correct sequence in time - so you know that your causal factor (neutering or not) came before your proposed outcome factor (health or behavioural impact)....unlike the simple retrospective data interrogation studies where everything can only be seen as correlational, not causal. As everyone knows, correlation doesn't equal causation.
Sadly, I was not given any choice with my female lab she broke her leg at 6 months and the vet took it upon themselves to just fix her, never even asked us!
Welcome to the forum, Smarine If my vet desexed my dog (or undertook any surgical procedure) without my permission I'd be making a formal complaint to whatever body regulates vet registration in my country. To desex or not is your decision, never your vet's. Quite honestly, I'd be livid.
As Julie T said, the marking in the house is just a toilet training issue and shouldn't pose a long-term problem, rather than anything to do with Bruno being intact. I was strongly advised by friends and family to have my male lab castrated, but managed to train all of the 'symptoms' of intact males out of him without a problem (and as a first time dog owner with no prior knowledge of dog training). I volunteer for the RSPCA who are keen to promote castration and gave me terrrible grief but I ignored them and went with my vet's advice. His opinion was that the health benefits of an intact male outweigh the benefits of a castrated one, the one in my case not manifesting itself until he was quite old, being the arthritis that he developed in later life. Had he been castrated, the likelihood would have been that he gained weight, which when he developed chronic arthritis in his early teens would have put extra strain on his joints and would have been a real health issue. As it was, we were able to see him get to 16 years old and have a very full life (with managed walking and pain relief) up until two days before we had to say goodbye. I strongly urge you to try and manage with what are probably no more than growing pains. I never had issues with aggression, roaming or any of the other scare stories attributed to intact dogs that couldn't be trained out of Jesse with a few simple lessons.
This may sound like a really stupid question, so dogs can get growing pains? I googled this and come across panosteitis. All symptoms fit Bruno - who is still no better and £500 down - not that money matters. Lethargic - slightly better when on anitbiotics Fever - Told he has mucus build up and hit temperature slightly high Inappetance - Again better with antibiotics Im no vet so clutching at straws, hate my vets theyre crap and i cant find a good one, but how can i help him, he still cries alot, and im beating myself up as i am losing my patience when im hearing a dog whine from the time im home till i go bed (girlfriend has to put up with it all day). Please help!
Has Bruno just started with the whining recently? I am wondering if there might be a bitch on heat in the vicinity. This wouldn't match with the lethargy though, I think most male dogs tend to pace up and down and try to get out if they are interested in a bitch.
His a Labrador so I know nose down sniffing is a trait, but moreso lately when on walks, his lead walking was moderate now its terrible as he is sniffing the ground charging for something, outside he will sit by the gate and cry. (constantly wants to be outside - befor ehe was a "lap" dog always wanted to be near) His crying has been about for a month or two (have been to the vets who have put it down to fever, UTI, skin allergy), before this we would be able to open the gate and take the bin out now he charges and always to the same garden - I dont think a dog lives there though. Completely clutching at straws!
