Dear All, This is a follow on from TigerMom's topic 'Dog Park help' and Lisa's comments of 16/4/14....... 'Well, I live in Canada, where dog parks and "off - leash" areas are becoming more and more popular. Basically because here, dogs are mainly not allowed to roam off leash, certainly not on their own, nor while they are in the company of their owners, like at a beach, park, playground, etc., unless there are clear indications that this is allowed. Now people do Ben these rules a bit, and most don't mind to have a dog roaming around if it is well trained and the owner picks up after it. But basically the rule generally is that your dog has to be on a leash if it is out and about. Hence, the proliferation of dog parks and off leash areas. Personally I am very happy that my town has just built a dog park where I can take Simba for some play and doggie socialization. Even when I am off leash outside of town, in the surrounding fields and forested areas, it is highly unlikely that I will come across anyone else out there walking their dogs, due to the simple fact of population density. And none of my friends have dogs that Simba can play with. So I pretty much have to take him to the dog park for doggie play, or the only doggie contact he gets is with other dogs who are in their yards and behind fences or on leash as we walk around the town. I dunno. I don't see a bit anti-dog agenda at work, myself. But maybe that's because I grew up here and don't know any different.' My reply as follows............... Lisa, thank you for the insight into your dog parks and the availability of off leash exercise. As you say you have grown up with things as they are, and haven't had it any other way. I must admit that I find Canada's restriction of off lead exercise very concerning and quite frightening. I thought the UK was very restrictive. In my opinion some of the natural behaviours in dogs are to run, hunt, track and chase. To deny a dog these opportunities on a regular basis is to handicap and discriminate against dogs. In the UK we have the Animal Welfare Act (2006) which is a piece of national legislation designed to protect and improve animal welfare. There are five main points called 'duties' and one of them is a need 'to exhibit normal behavior patterns'. Of course any legislation is only as good as the policing and enforcement of the legislation and I am not suggesting in any way that all dogs have all their needs met, they do not. Despite the UK being 'a nation of animals lovers' we have many, many appalling animal neglect and cruelty cases on a daily basis. My Labrador Jess walks around our village green (open space) off lead and through some local woods and around the edges of farmers fields. We are lucky that the local land owners allow us on their land, however at all times it is expected that your dog is under control at all times and doesn't worry/chase livestock. Are these restrictions in place due to some dog owners being irresponsible and not having their dogs under control? Have these types of restrictions always been in place? I may start a new post as I don't wish to take up your space with my deviation to your subject as this is an interesting subject which is also eye opening and concerning. I would be very interested in any comments and opinions from around the world.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I live in the UK in a semi rural area and I wish we had dog parks available. It can be very difficult to find safe appropriate areas to exercise puppies and teach them that all important recall. Not unreasonably farmers are sometimes unhappy about us using their fields. It is after all their livelihood, where they raise their crops and their animals. To most of us it seems unbelievable that there is quite a large proportion of society who are frightened of dogs, they have every right to go about their business without fear. How wonderful to have an area where dogs can be dogs. Those who are dubious about the area can avoid it and go about there business in peace. My local council is about to spend £25000 on refurbishing a skate park that was opened in 2008. I would suggest that there are probably more dog walkers in the town than skate boarders. I actually pay £8 for my dog to join a 1 hour puppy romp. She cavorts in a safe, enclosed enviroment with a number of equally lucky puppies with the opportunity to practice our recalls (with lots of distraction). Best of all it tires her out, fell asleep on the 8 minute drive home this week.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I think dog parks an an excellent idea for like minded people to meet up and for dogs to socialise. If you don't like dogs you don't go and everyone would be happy. I really wish we had one even though we live in the countryside and enjoy many very beautiful walks but you simply don't meet very many dogs for socialisation. It would be wonderful to have a safe and enclosed area to exercise and train your dog(s).
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I live in Australia. Legislation in relation to dogs is a State government matter so I will mostly just talk about where I live - the Australian Capital Territory (ACT). It's a town of about 350 000 people with lots of parkland and bush areas. Much of the ACT is National Park. Dogs (or any non-native species) are not allowed in National Parks anywhere in Australia - on lead or off lead. This is to protect native wildlife. Totally appropriate in my view. There are also Nature Reserves, where dogs are allowed on lead only. As well as this, there are many public parks and ovals and these areas are designated either on-lead or off-lead. The government publishes maps to show where dogs can go off lead. There are plenty of off-lead places available within a 10 minute drive of my house (two of which are 20 seconds walk from my house). Government website about off-lead areas: http://www.tams.act.gov.au/city-services/pets/keeping_dogs_in_the_act/where_can_i_take_my_dog Over the last 5 years the government has built a number of dog parks around Canberra. There are five at the moment with another due to open this year. They are large, well fenced, safe and pleasant for humans as well as dogs. We use them weekly. Great for exercise and socialisation. I've lived here for 20 years and have had a dog most of that time. Looking back, there used to be more off-lead access in public parks than there is now as there were no designated on-lead or off-lead areas. There were no guidelines other than the requirement to keep dogs away from children's play equipment when it was being used. When the guidelines came in some ovals and some areas of parks became 'dog free' or 'on lead only'. But as I said there are still lots of off lead areas. In part to compensate for the restrictions the dog parks were also built but this has been fairly recent and was in response to owners wanting more safe, fenced areas. I've also lived in Sydney and visit there regularly. The only places you can have dogs off lead there are designated dog parks. Each local council must provide at least one. The area where my parents live, where we visit, has several. They are pretty small though - maybe 200m x 100m, whereas the Canberra ones are more like 400m x 300m. In Sydney there are two small beaches where dogs are allowed (very nice beaches - not rubbish ones) but otherwise no dogs are allowed on beaches in Sydney. Overall, Sydney itself is very restrictive for dogs. I'm also familiar with the south coast of NSW and it's a bit different there as there are many long, fabulous beaches where dogs can run off lead.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I live in Dubai..... Dogs are not allowed off leash in ANY public place.dogs are not even allowed to be walked ON leash in some public places.There are NO dog parks or plans for any provision of them.If your dog is on the beach and the police see you,for the first offence you will be fined,for the second offence your dog will be confiscated There are private Kennel/Boarding facilities some of which provide a form of outside 'dog park' area .Generally( unless it's the weekend or a special event) you Leave your dog there,you aren't allowed to stay with them.From research and first hand accounts I conclude in most cases these are badly designed,organised and supervised.now at 14 months of dog ownership I recognize that Dexter needs to have more opportunities to meet new dogs off lead ,and the opportunities that I engineer need to be supplemented.I've found a Daycare facility that I am comfortable to leave him in for a couple of hours one morning a week..... Culturally dogs are not merited here,there are regular reportings of dogs and cats being poisoned in the ex pat communities and some of the undeveloped desert areas. Please don't think us irresponsible taking on our boy to live in the Middle,East. We undertook Dexter fully knowing the restrictions we would face with him ,but we are fully committed to ensure ing he has a full and active and as 'normal' as possible dog life and we only brought him out at a time in our lives whenwe are able to commit the time it takes to make sure he gets the excercise and socialization he needs. To this end,Ive gathered a small group of dog walking friends who are prepared to get up at daybreak ( 5.15 am currently)and get into our gated community park for the dogs to run free .......security usually arrive about 10 mins into our play session but are tolerant if it's our group, they appreciate we are all responsible owners who will call our dogs back and put them on the leads if leashed dogs or joggers/walkers wish to use the same area.i also take dexter out into a desert area where there has been no reported poisonings.....this was done with caution.....I was driving out without him and talking to other owners I could see out there assessing the safety of the area before I was confident it was safe to take him,I take a basic first aid kit with me too.....just in case! There is a guy I've met through his Facebook page who you can pay 250 dhs to ( approx £40) to visit his villa on Palm Jumeirah and use his private beach area.....we don't do this often ( the sea is soooooo salty,dexter isn't that keen ) but it's an excercise and socialization opportunity as we always check there will be a couple of other dogs down there before we take him.......it's a rip off ,but we pay every so often because it's a useful resource.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? oh dear, i have just realised with this post how lucky i am i have got some fantastic walks, my back gates leads onto an open field, toilet time 8 30, we walk out off lead we meet up with buster a little white staffy, good run playing, for half an hour, ..depending on the weather there may be up to 4/5 dogs out all off lead afternoon walk i have a choice , i could walk to the woods/hills/ponds, park or open fields , i have only got to walk 100 yards, to any of these walks jasper as spent more time off lead than on, we might meet up to 30 dogs a day, more now the weather is getting nicer may be the reason jasper pulls so much on the lead is he spends more time off it,....i am working very hard with him on lead to correct this bad behaviour he as a least an hour and half off lead every day
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I very, very much appreciate and value the freedom I have to allow my dog off lead in London parks. (And the freedom to take my dog on public transport, pubs, and cafes etc). I am wary of dog parks - because I think it is a slippery slope to banning off lead dogs in parks. I also don't much like the idea of dog parks, and think it is more "healthy" to oblige dog owners to make sure their dogs can behave properly in normal parks (I say this without disrespect to people who might value enclosed spaces because they are working on problems with their dogs). I also think it is a bit silly that I meet so many people that don't know how to behave around dogs, and panic if a dog approaches a child. But, I also think they have the right to use the parks without worrying about dogs (even if that worry is illogical). So I think it is probably inevitable that off lead dogs in UK London will be restricted to dog parks, in time.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I am very fortunate to live in a rural area, even so, the increasing number of 'dogs on leads' signs is driving me mad. I totally agree that around livestock it is necessary but I get annoyed that many areas are now like it for 'conservation' purposes, aka pheasant breeding. I just wondered how breeding pheasants to be shot down is conserving them ? I think we are becoming an increasingly less dog tolerant and more dog restrictive country. I love to see my dogs running off lead through woods, on footpaths, over fields and on the beach. They and I gain no pleasure from entire walks on lead. The day I cannot let my dogs have off lead running opportunities or the only off lead areas are enclosed dog parks is the day I stop owning a dog! Chloe
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I so agree with you Chloe.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I agree with Chloe too Julie, if there were specially designated dog parks then people/children who don't know how to behave around dogs or don't like them wouldn't go there so everyone would be satisified
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? [quote author=charlie link=topic=5468.msg69584#msg69584 date=1398001856] Julie, if there were specially designated dog parks then people/children who don't know how to behave around dogs or don't like them wouldn't go there so everyone would be satisified [/quote] I wouldn't want to go there with my dog though. I'd love it if there were dog parks and no restrictions about off lead dogs. Paddington park is a good example of this. My fear is that the introduction of dog parks would be the first step to restrictions. In that "now off lead dogs have somewhere, we can ban them from the rest of the park" kind of thing. I do think it's only a matter of time before we see only dogs on leads in the main London parks though - I honestly think it's just a matter of time.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? I've definitely needed enclosed spaces at various stages and undoubtedly will again : However we're lucky that we live in a semi-rural area with a lot of dogs so they're welcome in most outdoor spaces. We're not quite as dog friendly in terms of pubs etc as some places but we're doing ok. There are also a reasonable amount if dog waste bins so we can help keep it all nice for everyone I would be sad to be restricted to dog parks but can easily see this happening in towns and cities. On the outskirts of Winchester I have to leave Riley at home if we're heading to the swings as they're enclosed, no dogs are allowed and I won't leave him tied up while we play.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? The park in our Village is an on lead only but I have to say people are very disrespectful of this and allow their dogs off lead and allow them fowl too and the worst thing is the local Primary School use the park to play in and for sports activities. About 5 years ago I tried to get a fenced in dog walkway around the perimiter of the park for off lead dogs but NO was the answer . So far we haven't got any 'dogs on lead' signs in the countryside around here, although obviously most sensible owners put their dogs on lead round sheep etc. We have a lovely wood to walk in but my friend was shouted at for having her dogs off lead there when there are definitely no 'dogs on lead' signs, farmers and landowners in the countryside can be very difficult and really don't want dog walkers around. Even on public footpaths I have been confronted with a gun weilding game keeper and so have many dog walkers, but he maybe the exception. I don't think he will be confronting me again We have land owners blocking stiles and making them totally inaccessible which makes me very cross as they are public footpaths. I am now the 'Footpath Representative' for the Local Parish Council (no laughing please ;D ;D) so I hope to get things changed for dog walkers and ramblers It can be just as bad in the countryside as in towns and cities unfortunately
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? Yes, I can see it coming too. Although, the Royal Parks are very tolerant of dogs. There are 5 rules (6 really, as the first is two Keep your dog under control and clean up after it Your dog must always be in your sight You must carry a lead with you, in case you need it Respect the dogs on lead areas [thankfully few] Your dog must not chase wildlife or birds - you can face prosecution if you allow it I think it's a very, very good deal. I do my very best to comply, and hope others do the same so we can keep our off lead freedoms in London.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? We are so very fortunate. Semi rural area, with lots of choices, plenty of reservoirs, woods, riverside walks etc. I rarely go to the park. On our dog walks 99.9 of pooches we meet are off lead, which suits Tatze and me If I do see a dog on lead I pop her on, as there is invariably a reason (aggressive, restricted play, nervous, post op etc) But, when I do go to the park, I make sure Tatze is on the lead when there are children about - she is far too big and bouncy!
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? Here, off-lead restriction came first and dog parks are a more recent addition, built in response to a community demand for safe, off-lead areas. I think that if restrictions are going to happen they will happen regardless, and, if they do happen, hopefully, at the very least, dog parks are built as some kind of compensation. Leaving aside comparisons with off-lead running on beaches, mountains, in fields etc - dog parks aren't all that bad The dog park we go to is friendly and social (dogs and people) and large and Obi always has a great time. There is a place for well-designed dog parks.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? Hmmm...just found out my local council is consulting on banning off lead dogs from the parks (I only use one and then only time to time). Thankfully the common and royal parks are outside their jurisdiction. This, despite responses to their survey that showed 90% of people think off lead dog in the parks are unproblematic. Reading between the lines, they think dog owners flooded the survey with responses. Their justification is two "reports" of someone being "attacked" by a dog. No details of any injuries sustained though...
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? You are lucky to have areas they can't touch.... Love how councils consult and then ignore it.
Re: Dog Parks Off Lead areas - discrimination and anti-dog or adequate provision? Dear All, Thank you for your interesting responses. It seems from your comments that in the UK there are less restrictions than other countries e.g. Canada and Australia. On the surface dogs parks may not seem such a bad idea, even pro-active and thoughtful consideration by local councils, however as many of us know, and as mentioned in these comments, restrictions start off with a ban to off lead exercise, which leads to bans on beaches, which then leads to dog parks. This is just the start of a slippery slope and is discrimination at best, extinction at worst - this is no exaggeration, there are people that believe that dogs should not be allowed in public, only one dog permitted per household, and that dogs should not even exist! In my opinion there is absolutely no comparison between a fenced off section of your local park to that of the freedom to run, play, hunt and socialise in wide open spaces be it your local park, forest area, beach or fields. In the UK there are increasing numbers of reported dog biting incidents. Isolating dogs and taking away their opportunities to socialise and experience different people, crowds, dogs, traffic etc. is denying our dogs the chance to be taught and learn how to become well adjusted sociable animals. By transporting your dog directly from your home, into your car and directly into your local dog park we are also taking away an owners responsibility to raise their dogs to become well adjusted companions in society. One could even argue that some owners may feel that by taking their dog to their dog park, anything goes, and that they do not have a responsibility to correctly train and socialise their dogs. The dog has been domesticated for approximately 14,000 years, yet it is only in the last 200 years or so that more and more restrictions have been placed on our dogs. In the next 200 years will dogs be banished from being in public, unfortunately by the way society currently treats our voiceless companions this may well become a reality, thankfully I will not be around to see it.
