Bit of background I live with a 16 month old intact fox red lab called Alfie, who has a lovely temperament and I don't regret having him for one minute. At 12 weeks we started with a trainer who taught outdoor group classes in the woods and all seemed to be going swimmingly (although we could never seem to make any inroads with pulling on the lead). We had a good basic sit, stay with a walk away and return and pick up and a good recall (or so I thought!). Fast forward three months and after a class we received an email to say that Alfie was ready to move onto the next group but he was unable to until he had 'been done' and that he was no longer to come to puppy class. It would have been nice to have been warned about this before we started the classes as we would have looked elsewhere. 10 months down the line and carrying on with the methods we were shown, all of a sudden our recall has steadily fallen apart and thanks to 1 session in the group doing a dummy fetch Alfie refuses to give up anything he finds on walks and refuses to come anywhere near us with 'his prize'. This morning being a point in example when he found a golf ball!! I don't know what to do first. I am now totally put off "trainers" and despite looking have been unable to find one that I trust. I have received Total Recall today and feel comfortable to take on the training on my own, but am worried that hubby will not be on board and scupper my success. Any advice would be very welcome as this is my first dog and I just see all the things that need putting right and don't know what to start with first.
Re: Don't know how far back to go Go to the back of the book - a super chapter on re-training recall. Simply don't let you hubby near the whistle! ;D PS - and welcome to you and Alfie!
Re: Don't know how far back to go Hello and welcome to you and Alfie! What a cheek from your trainer, just to assume you would neuter your dog. Was that the reason you didnt go back? Don't be disheartened though, there are excellent trainers out there, but you are right that you can do a lot (or all) of the training yourself. You will find Total Recall really helpful and excellent. Maybe encourage your hubby to read it, as it will help if he supports you. Good luck, and do let us know how you progress.
Re: Don't know how far back to go Welcome to the forum. Never heard anything so ridiculous that your boy must be done to continue with your trainer! I'm sure that there are other trainers around who would not demand the same. Try the Total Recall, it is very good but you need to encourage your husband to read the book, even if he isn't involved in the actual training, as Alfie needs consistency to help overcome his current lapse. Keep us informed on Alfie's progress
Re: Don't know how far back to go Thanks for the replies. I started at the front of the book. Will have a shifty at that chapter at the back. Karen - yes that was the reason the trainer wouldn't let us go any further through the groups and wouldn't let us stay on in the puppy group. Just need a plan I think and then work through it. Tried to make myself as exciting as possible on this afternoons walk. All 5'4" of me , helped that no one else was in the wood but he still does that annoying thing of when he is called back he stops and does a 360 degree shifty of the area first and then decides if he is coming back or not. Ho hum we will get there.
Re: Don't know how far back to go Some extra special treats can work wonders. I know we should be exciting enough to get them to come back to us but a special treat can encourage the return without a second thought.
Re: Don't know how far back to go Good luck with taking hold of the reigns yourself ,I know how you feel,I've pretty much done everything with Dexter myself ....we live in Dubai and I've just not ever found a trainer or classes that I've been entirely comfortable with....they aren't very good quality to be honest.Dexter is a working line lab,bred in a gun dog kennel....I didn't know what had hit me really when we got him at 5 months...so I had to get a grip of myself and step up and thankfully found Pippa,the Labrador site,Totally Gundogs and the Forum! Phew,don't know what kid of a mess we would be in now if I hadn't! I don't aspire to have anything more than an engaged ( on walks) well mannered contented pet ,but sometimes I surprise myself Its a bit of a lonely path on your own though and it's easy to lose focus and momentum ,I like being in some kind of class to keep me on track so don't give up on looking for a trainer you 'click' with especially if you are in the UK,there are lots of resources there. Best wishes Angela
Re: Don't know how far back to go It's not unusual for daycare places to insist on desexing but I've never heard of it being necessary for attendance of a training class. Very odd, and a shame that they did not tell you up front. I hope you are not put off all trainers though. There are good ones, and being in a group class can be really beneficial. It is important to find one that has an approach that you're comfortable with though, for sure. In the meantime I'm sure you'll make progress with Total Recall.
Re: Don't know how far back to go Hello and welcome My reaction was "what a cheek!". There are loads of experienced folk on the forum and plenty of links and resources here to help you. You need to engage with your OH as much as your dog though. The lab site and forum can help and particularly looking at some of the other training logs. Keep looking for a new trainer you like. I am sure this one must be in the minority. Good luck! Jac
Re: Don't know how far back to go Although I have castrated dogs, I certainly would NOT have had them castrated because the trainer said so. It seems to me that he may be unconfident, scared a fight starting, so I would have had confidence being in his class! As others have said, there is a lot of help on the forum and I am sure you will be able to find a good trainer sooner or later.
Re: Don't know how far back to go Are you near any positive gundog trainers? There is a group on facebook, Positive Gundogs, where there is a list posted. Do make sure you go to a positive trainer though. In the gundog class I go to, most (actually, if not all) of the male dogs are intact. There are never any problems, but we learn to handle our dogs around other intact male dogs, which is very helpful. I've also found pet trainers, dog walkers, and daycare less than enthusiastic about intact dogs. So it was a relief to find a class to go to with a load of intact dogs and people who incorporated managing them into their day to day training.
Re: Don't know how far back to go I've stopped going to agility because a trainer was out right rude to me in front of the whole group as I had not had my dog done yet. Our dog sitter has mentioned recently that now he's 2 1/2 we should consider getting him done. In her case I see her point although he has never given me much trouble when out and about with other dogs. At 1 and a bit I found I had to reinforce all the basics again, this was when I started agility to give him more mental stimulation and exercise at the same time. I now take him to classes run by volunteers as a club. They are much more open to all sorts, help with friendly advice and through open discussion of experiences.
Re: Don't know how far back to go I also became disillusioned with trainers. The problem is its a totally unregulated industry. Any of us could advertise ourselves as trainers tomorrow with no prerequisites. Personally I reached out to a qualified behaviourist last year for some help. Non of our issues were beyond the basics but I simply decided I wanted someone with real qualifications and credentials. And we got exactly what we needed. The only downside is a bit more expensive... Even the behaviour industry is unregulated, but moves are afoot to address that. You will increasingly come across the terms Behaviour Technican (level 5) and Clinical Animal Behaviourist (level 6). Both require degree equivalent studies to claim either if those titles.
Re: Don't know how far back to go I do think that it can be a real challenge finding a good dog trainer - I've tried loads, really loads. And I am definitely not in the middle of nowhere, I'm in South West London within easy striking distance of Surrey. There are masses of people to choose from. On the whole, I have been extremely disappointed by pet dog trainers, and impressed by gundog trainers. I do think that this reflects the fact that those who are very skilled are much more likely to be teaching a specialist class. And those who are new to the industry, start with very basic classes. I think the exception is dog clubs, where you can find very skilled people teaching beginner classes (because of the nature of the club, where people progress through stages). Unfortunately, the two clubs accessible to me with very good reputations had waiting lists of over a year... So gundog training it is, for me and Charlie. And we love it. I do think it's pretty critical to find a positive gundog trainer though, but these are extremely thin on the ground. I travel 125 miles (250 miles round trip) for my classes.... So, I agree. I think on the whole, the state of and availability of high quality dog training tuition is pretty awful...
Re: Don't know how far back to go 125 miles! Wow, that's commitment Julie! There is only one gundog trainer in my home town, and a little birdie told me his methods are largely positive, but not entirely so. I could look further afield, but with a full time job etc I can't really get an appetite for the time commitment. We do have a good agility trainer but my problem is there is nothing agile about me! I don't want to embarrass my poor lab lol!
Re: Don't know how far back to go [quote author=JohnG link=topic=10149.msg149010#msg149010 date=1426174726] There is only one gundog trainer in my home town, and a little birdie told me his methods are largely positive, but not entirely so. [/quote] It might not be too bad...depending on what "not entirely so" means. I am particularly interested in training 100% without aversives (unless I make mistakes, of course, which I do) but still, one traditional gundog trainer I went to was very good, and without my particular ambition to train the way I do now (which came later), I was perfectly happy with him. You could try...just be clear in your own mind about what is, and what is not, ok for your dog before you go and be prepared to leave if you are not happy.
Re: Don't know how far back to go Well if you will train with one of the best trainers in the country Julie it's likely you'll have to travel Having said that most of the really good training I've been to has been a bit of a journey too......maybe good things come from far away or you make more effort if you've put in a lot of effort to get there and you're away from home distractions I really agree with this.....,.,your dog, your money, your choices [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10149.msg149011#msg149011 date=1426175091] You could try...just be clear in your own mind about what is, and what is not, ok for your dog before you go and be prepared to leave if you are not happy. [/quote]
Re: Don't know how far back to go [quote author=bbrown link=topic=10149.msg149015#msg149015 date=1426176269] Well if you will train with one of the best trainers in the country Julie it's likely you'll have to travel [/quote] It's worth it, being able to do proper gundog training (well, as properly as we'll ever manage anyway) and commit 100% to the programme, has made an incredible difference to our lives. Might sound nuts, but there you are...yup, well worth it.
