Re: Dummies?? [quote author=charlie link=topic=1355.msg9009#msg9009 date=1364854296] Hi Rachael, just wondered if the fur dummy would work as Charlie really has no interest in anything when out and about other than the horizon! Have literally tried everything. Heidrun, Murffi is doing really well, just not sure we can take on any more training as we are pretty flat out with Charlie, really need him to get retrieving other than in a controlled environment and quickly Thanks Helen x [/quote] Helen, as you can see in the video clip I have only just started to move Murffi's retrieving from my back garden into the field. He is very fluent in the garden but not so good in the outside world yet. Is Charlie the same? Will he retrieve reliably in a controlled environment?
Re: Dummies?? [quote author=charlie link=topic=1355.msg9011#msg9011 date=1364856452] Rachael that sounds great, but do you believe that the rabbit fur could make his prey drive worse? Sorry if that is a silly question but this is his major problem. Helen [/quote] I have never trained a dog to do proper gun dog work but I did train our previous Lab (using the sheepskin) to retrieve all day like a maniac (for flyball and also for formal obedience purposes) while simultaneously teaching him to ignore our ducks even if they ran and flapped right under his nose. When we first got the ducks Nicolae very, very much wanted to have one for himself and was quite keen on catching running animals in general (he caught and killed our pet rabbit when he was a puppy and thoroughly enjoyed the experience). So he did have to learn to put a lid on his desire to catch pet ducks. So, based on that, I think that dogs can be taught to build on and direct their prey-drive into a retrieve, even using an animal-like object, while learning not to chase actual animals. I have also seen plenty of Border Collies at flyball who began life with a huge prey drive but who learned not to chase other running dogs (i.e. members of the other team) and to focus totally on the handler instead , even in an intensely exciting environment. Anyone do flyball near you? It does teach a dog a lot of self-control (while having a ball). I would expect that learning to focus on a fun object that you control would be a very good thing and that it wouldn't matter what it was covered in That's what I reckon anyway.
Re: Dummies?? Hi Helen, I think a lot more useful stuff has now been posted, but I just use a scruffy orange plain sawdust filled 1 lb dummy for when we are out on walks together when I do a spot of training part way round in a quiet field. I find she's a bit possessive about a pheasant skin dummy I also sometimes use, and I think I could break her away from that but as she's ok with real birds it's not really an issue. I've got another dummy for more complicated stuff doing selected retrieves that I usually get help with and where she needs a lot more work. So for day to day training/play I just use a scuffy well used orange dummy with plenty of my scent and also pheasant scent on it. (ooh yuk!) ;D
Re: Dummies?? Heidrun, yes he will retrieve his ball in the garden and the paddock but not out and about for anything, just can't seem to get Not interested in the normal orange saw dust filled dummy, so I guess a ball is as good. Rachael, thank you for your help. I think I will buy the rabbit covered tennis ball to instigate his interest and then slowly introduce the rabbit dummy and train him with it slowly as you suggested in your previous post, got nothing to lose at this point David thank you also, good point about being possessive over a fur dummy I can see that could be an issue but maybe I could remove it on occassions and replace it with a tennis ball. Do you seriously rub the dummy in Pheasants? ;D Helen xx
Re: Dummies?? if this had been yesterday , I`d have seriously thought it was an April Fools wind up David ;D As it is , I had to google it , amazing , who`d have thought it and on Amazon too
Re: Dummies?? Someone suggested to me to leave Riley's dummy on top of his food to get him more interested in it. Wen he was little I put it in a sock as he's always up for stealing a sock (or two)
Re: Dummies?? I like the sock idea Barbara, does Riley like his dummy or is he a ball boy? ;D Helen x
Re: Dummies?? He's currently mildly obsessed by his squeaky ball he even ignored the ducks behind the fence he was sat in front of today in the hopes of getting his ball thrown! Some people steer away from stuff that squeaks if they're going to actually retrieve shot game but I'm up for anything that works at the moment and the squeak breaks his concentration if I need to attract him but don't want to use my recall. He will retrieve a dummy too but if I ask him to stay steady at the moment he gets bored so I'm using his ball as his reward to keep him running and enthused. I have classic green canvas 1/2 and 1lb dummies and some working dog company rugby ball shaped ones. He tends to carry the green one by the end but the WDC ones by the middle which is better.
Re: Dummies?? Ah yes the squeaky ball, Charlie was obsessed with those, but weaned him off them onto normal tennis balls and keep the sueaky ones to attract him. I use balls as rewards too, so am doing something right x
Re: Dummies?? [quote author=charlie link=topic=1355.msg9025#msg9025 date=1364910432] Heidrun, yes he will retrieve his ball in the garden and the paddock but not out and about for anything, just can't seem to get Not interested in the normal orange saw dust filled dummy, so I guess a ball is as good. Rachael, thank you for your help. I think I will buy the rabbit covered tennis ball to instigate his interest and then slowly introduce the rabbit dummy and train him with it slowly as you suggested in your previous post, got nothing to lose at this point David thank you also, good point about being possessive over a fur dummy I can see that could be an issue but maybe I could remove it on occassions and replace it with a tennis ball. Do you seriously rub the dummy in Pheasants? ;D Helen xx [/quote] I still believe it is necessary to generalise the retrieve outside of the garden rather than looking for a special dummy in an attempt to hold the dog's attention. I am on that road myself with Murffi and I know that it can be quite a lengthy process but I am hoping to get a dog that will retrieve anytime and anywhere at the end of it.
Re: Dummies?? I'm in same positition with Brodick, he's excited when I get the dummies out and will retreive them really well and enjoys himself in the house/a garden/ in the park, but not even slightly interested in them up in the hills, too much other stuff going on (currently pheasant obsessed). Good to read Heidrun's take on it, I was just about to buy him a Whistling Nerf Rocket Ball (they are ace but you have to keep an eye on them as they are kids toys so easily destructable )to work on his retrieves up the hill as I know he loves them, I still will but think I'll keep that for games in the park, will keep working on his proper retreives with a dummy. Clicker training the retreive has worked really well with him in the house....but he gets bored retreiving much more quickly than Cuillin so I am keeping it short and exciting for him on land, in water however he will retreive all day if he can, loves it....
Re: Dummies?? I realise that I do things slightly different to most of you guys on here . If I drive somewhere either the woods or the moor to do some retrieving training and Murffi is not cooperating then I will put him back in the car and get another dog out. What I will definitely not do is give him a chance to hunt. If on the other hand he has worked hard on his retrieves then I will give him the ultimate reward in his eyes - a hunt up. I know that might be difficult if you have gone out for a walk with a bit of retrieving training thrown in.
Re: Dummies?? Heidrun, I see your point but we are not looking for gundog levels at all, just keeping him interested in something when he can come off lead. Maybe the fur dummy is the key to holding his interest which I understand is the point. Whether it is a canvas or fur dummy does it really matter if it works for your dog? Another lengthy process is too much for us with all the other lengthy processes we have had and are still going through. Debsie you are obviously doing a great job so just keep going with your two. Helen x
Re: Dummies?? Helen, I believe we both want the same thing. A dog that comes when called and engages with us when and where ever we want to and a dog that has a good level of self control. The only way to get those things is lengthy training especially when we are dealing with hard hunting dogs like Murffi and Charlie. What we do with the trained dog afterwards, either taking it shooting or for a walk doesn't really matter. There are still many, many things I have to learn about training dogs but one thing I know for sure - there are no short cuts and no magic cures.
Re: Dummies?? hey Helen, Brodick goes wild for rabbit skin dummies. Big Pupils, wild look on his face... The only problem with them outside is Cuillin can't cope with the excitement, there just HAS to be a game of Chasy started with them after a few solemn retrieves. she's hilarious, leaps up and down on her front legs wagging her entire body egging brodick on for a chase and he always obliges and loves it too....and brodick will sprint off to retreive them, but has to dash around with them shaking them as he is so excited...its never simple is it! and thanks for saying I'm doing a great job, I'm definately making SMALL steps forward with brodick, he is a different lad out on his walks now, but I've got a way to go yet, and he will still leg it off after wildlife unless I'm REALLY focused on him - they both legged it off after a heron again today after a loss of focus from me, even Saint Cuillin was temporarily deaf...in itself it wasnt the end of the world but I do need them to have more self control, particulary Brodick as he falls into the hard hunting category...so I know how much work it takes to firstly work out what (if anything outside!) on earth enages these guys, and then constantly keep on top of it on a walk, so I understand what you're saying, particulary given how much work you've put in with your boy already....as heidrun says though, I think this one is a long term project, but it will work out - my sister has brodick's big sister, another hard hunter, and she has had to put in the months with her but she is now brilliant out and about, and this was a very very devoted deer chaser!we will all get there, I'm convinced...
Re: Dummies?? Here comes silly question number 158 ;D Has anyone, apart from David, used Pheasant scent to rub on their dogs dummy and should I try that and above all does it work? x
Re: Dummies?? [quote author=charlie link=topic=1355.msg9057#msg9057 date=1364989900] Here comes silly question number 158 ;D Has anyone, apart from David, used Pheasant scent to rub on their dogs dummy and should I try that and above all does it work? x [/quote] I use it to help a young dog make the transition from retrieving on short grass to longer grass and heavier cover. Does it make a dog mad keen to retrieve in any situation? No.
Re: Dummies?? I'm using the squeaky ball for two things (which may be making a rod for my own back) 1. to keep Riley keen to retrieve and 2. As a reward for retrieving other things SoKetones we just play with his ball so it's lots of fun and other times if he does a lovely dummy retrieve (or recall etc etc) he gets his ball thrown but if he does a poor retrieve I don't change over to the ball, we walk for a bit and then we might do something different with a subsequent ball reward. I'm gradually doing more dummy work and using the ball as his reward rather than the ball as his retrieving object itself. In the meantime knowing I have his ball means he's more focussed on me than previously. I hope all this means I'm using the ball as a reward rather than a bribe although I do sometimes use the squeak to break his concentration on something undesirable! It's nice to have an alternative to food treats too.
