Re: Dummies?? You can't give up you've come too far!!! As a beginner and someone who mostly just wants a well behaved dog I think it's ok to try and find something your dog loves to retrieve to keep his interest high certainly Riley loves some things more than others. If you want him to retrieve what he's sent for you then need to generalise both the location and the object but otherwise you can just stick to what works. If you see drugs dogs their reward is their ball and it's all a big game and you may want that approach rather than a 'gun dog' get what you're sent for approach. I met a man who had spent ages teaching his young collie to be obsessed with her ball as otherwise she was off...to the point when I stood between her and her ball she did that collie lay down shuffle to one side so she could see it again ;D
Re: Dummies?? Thanks Barbara, the problem is nothing works outside of the controlled paddock area and I mean NOTHING. Really difficult to engage him no matter what we do. x
Re: Dummies?? When you say outside the paddock where do you mean? For instance would he play (on a long line for safety) in the open gateway, or the driveway in front of the paddock. Can you find anywhere that's only very slightly more interesting than the paddock - short grass, minimum smells. When we were at a similar point we used the monument by Farley Mount as it's sheep fenced and gated and not too big. Or can you use any training ground where you've had lessons, they tend to be fairly bland for the same reason. It sounds to me like you're struggling to find the right increment to change the scenario by so that it's more challenging but you can still hold his interest. Don't give up though you're doing brilliantly
Re: Dummies?? I mean when we take him for a walk on a 10 mtr training line. Just a road infront of the paddock so not safe. Have no more time to travel to Skovellsway due to hectic family committments and my dad is seriously ill and I am looking after him at weekends so not even at home to do anything else. Stuck in a rutt I think with training, due to doing the recall program as it's so difficult not being able to allow him off lead to test anything. Will just have to keep going. Thanks Barbara for your help. xx
Re: Dummies?? I totally agree with Barbara. You are making too big a jump from the enclosed garden and paddock to anywhere on a walk, Helen. Aim for one simple retrieve in an area free of distractions like scent or thick bushes that need investigating. Don't give your dog an excuse to blink the dummy. Once you have got your one retrieve stop and try again the next day. Keep it simple and don't ever give up.
Re: Dummies?? OK we will try that with his tennis ball as he has zero interest in the dummy. Can't explain how uninterested he is except for the horizon. Just looked on WDC at the rugby ball shaped dummy, maybe that would make a difference as I don't think it's filled with saw dust. Clutching at straws I know.
Re: Dummies?? Those dummies do appeal to dogs because unlike other dummies which land pretty much where they first hit the ground the WDC dummies twist and roll on much further. But they are still not the answer to your problem. Sorry.
Re: Dummies?? [quote author=bbrown link=topic=1355.msg9067#msg9067 date=1364994186] ''It sounds to me like you're struggling to find the right increment to change the scenario by so that it's more challenging but you can still hold his interest'' ... thats the issue I had with brodick, I kept taking him places where it was just too tempting, too smelly and too many hopping about distractions....I spent a while in less rabbity areas working on stuff with him and seemed to help him a lot...
Re: Dummies?? Ah I haven't taken him anywhere with distractions and still no interest in anything. Don't worry I will keep going and just hope for the best. Thanks Helen x
Re: Dummies?? [quote author=charlie link=topic=1355.msg9070#msg9070 date=1364997268] Clutching at straws I know. [/quote] Not clutching at straws just trying to find the right incentive Try leaving it in his food too, it might make it more tempting and if it doesn't you haven't lost anything. When I was really struggling - new baby and bored dog legging it - Sam gave me some really good advice which was that your dog doesn't suffer from not being trained for a while. It meant that although I didn't move forward neither did I slip back. As a result Riley spent weeks and maybe even months (it's all a blur! ) more on his lead than off. I know LOTS of people HATE them but a 10m flexi lead and a harness saved my sanity in that period. It sounds like you're at your absolute limit now and it really would be ok to give yourself a break for a little while. You can mull over the advice maybe get another 1-2-1 lesson under your belt and start afresh when life is hopefully a little less demanding. Keep smiling lots of hugs for you and Charlie
Re: Dummies?? Hi Helen It is quite common for dogs that love hunting to refuse to retrieve (we call it 'blinking') a boring old dummy when hunting is available. Searching for a more appealing dummy is unlikely to work because to a hunting dog, nothing but nothing is more interesting than hunting. Shooting folk tend to solve the problem in one of two ways. Either they give up on asking the dog to retrieve anything but game Or They refuse to allow the dog to hunt unless it retrieves first. This is my approach when I have spaniels that prefer hunting over retrieving. The first approach is no use to you, and it is a flawed one in any case, as very keen hunters may even blink game (or game scented items). I have an article on 'blinking' somewhere, but essentially, it involves insisting on a retrieve before hunting is permitted. I'll try and find the article. Pippa
Re: Dummies?? Thanks Barbara, really can't take a break as we really need to move on with his training to enable us to have a 'normal' life and be able to walk them both together on and off lead or before we know it we will be heading into another winter as we are now. Am also pushing on with Total Recall. I am waiting for Annie to get back to me with another 1-2-1 to help Charlie with retrieving. Pippa thank you for your help and explaining about Blinking, didn't want to ask another silly question. Things would be so much easier if he didn't have to be on a training line. Helen x
Re: Dummies?? Helen, can you not just take the pressure off yourself and just keep Charlie on a lead when you are out walking? That's what I would do if I were in your situation. You have got your garden and the paddock for training and exercise and the lead for walks. I think I have mentioned it before on here that I never take my dogs on walks. I train a lot and I work them in the shooting season, but I don't walk them in the way people walk their dogs. And yet they are all healthy, fit and happy animals. The two strongest reinforcers I have when training Murffi are food and the chance to hunt. But I am not giving them away for free which I would do if I fed him out of a bowl and let him free run, instead I feed him everything from my hand as a reward for good recalls and he gets to hunt for a few seconds for good retrieves. Especially the hand feeding has built a very strong bond between us even though it is not always pleasant to walk around with a bag of tripe and oily fish in my pocket.
Re: Dummies?? [quote author=heidrun link=topic=1355.msg9078#msg9078 date=1365014770] walk around with a bag of tripe and oily fish in my pocket. [/quote] Yuk! That is dedication We did what you suggest when Riley was at his most difficult (although most people probably wouldn't have found him hard). It definitely allowed us to take a breath, formulate a plan and very gradually we have got back to allowing him significant off lead time. Any hint that he won't do as he's bid and on his lead he goes. He'd rather please himself but pleasing me is definitely moving up the list of priorities now I'm more in control of the fun
Re: Dummies?? Heidrun, Charlie is NEVER off lead until total recall is completed and we have at least got a good recall, he is on a 10m training line to practice verbal recall and shortened to practice heel work/interaction. So sorry Barbara I really didn't mean to make you feel like that, but I bet you don't have a simple life either, very few people do. Helen x
Re: Dummies?? Heidrun, one more point on this subject, We have tried on many occasions feeding Charlie his breakfast by hand during his walk/recalls on a training line and he WILL NOT take it at all, nor treats either not even smelly pilchards. So our 2 problems are he is NOT food orientated and won't retrieve on a walk on training line which I appreciate is difficult for him. In the paddock NO problem with either. I truly don't understand and I think he has become institutionalised if that makes sense and this is all because of his recall issue, I feel. It seems to be a catch 22 situation, let him off lead who knows what will happen, keep him on lead he can't retrieve as 10 mtrs isn't far enough to get him going and risk him reaching the end of that line . So we really don't know where to go from this point in his training. Helen
Re: Dummies?? [quote author=charlie link=topic=1355.msg9085#msg9085 date=1365026628] So sorry Barbara I really didn't mean to make you feel like that, but I bet you don't have a simple life either, very few people do. [/quote] You don't need to be sorry Helen I was only trying to sympathise with the challenges you find yourself faced with and truly I feel guilty if I complain about Riley as he's a typical biddable Labrador and I'm sure it's our fault we have any issues with him As to your last point I wonder if the lack of interest in anything is due to Charlie being overwhelmed with stimulus on a walk in comparison to the paddock and if you can possibly find somewhere lower key and only the tiniest, tiniest bit more interesting than the paddock you may maintain his focus. I know we struggled to transfer from the house/garden to out and about and as I say Riley is a lot easier than Charlie although both equally loved! The very best of luck we're all rooting for you and Charlie
Re: Dummies?? I think Barabra has hit the nail on the head and it could very well be interest overload. Lady retrieves dummies well and with enthusiasm when we are in a secluded location, but any other distractions around and it tends to go all to pot.
Re: Dummies?? He does well in the paddock retrieving a ball , but living where we do, very rural we don't have any secluded areas to transfer this to. Helen x
