Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar :-(

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

[quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=10090.msg148431#msg148431 date=1425937968]

I like the look of that head collar actually, and the sound of how it works. Is this like the ones you use Jen?
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I've just ordered 2. I actually contacted George Greyson who designed them www.kumfi.com to ask if there's any chance of rubbing and how wide the dog can open its mouth. To be honest he wasn't very forthcoming with information, told me I should get a Kumfi calmer, which is basically a Gencon. I then contacted Lizi Angel to ask her advice. I didn't expect a reply as I thought I was being quite cheeky bothering her about it but she replied the next day and gave me lots of advice and was very helpful. A lovely lady.

I bought them from www.petsbestbuy.com cheaper than off Kumfi. I will let you know how we get on. I like the idea of using a double ended lead but I'm not sure if I will be able to manage all that lead in two hands.
http://www.petbestbuys.com/dog_collars/kumfi_dogalter/33682_p.html

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

I bought a "stylish" bum bag from Amazon when Juno and I started going on our "ballade educative" with our trainer and have found it so useful. I've got a large pocket to store treats in, another for poop bags, one for wipes and tissues, one for the mobile, one for the car and house keys and some money and that still leaves a couple free. It's also very useful when going to the vets as I can pop my plastic in the pouch with the cash and still have 2 free hands to carry all the flea treatments, wormers and large dog food bags.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

Gypsy is a super walker. When training she is a model dog, walking ahead of me, as she must and not distracted by anything whatever.

But when I take both dogs she pulls like a mad train (Tatze doesn't). Gypsy knows that if Tatze is with us a free run is at the end of it. If it's just me and her there isn't. The anticipation of the free run is the problem. You really would think I had a different dog with me.

So I have tended to make our free runs with the three of us together to places we can get straight out of the car, no leads.

But, this week, I have decided to tackle the problem. I have started walking to the park (about ten minutes) with both of them.

I set off determined that, if she doesn't respond, we will come straight home, no free run.

Then any pulling from her and I stop and make her sit.

I use treats when she walks well.

It is working, but I have to stop a lot. It takes me at least 20 minutes to get there - then once in the park, I don't let her off 'till we have a good few minutes 'nice' walking. It's hard work, but I feel it will be worth it!

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

The Italian Spinone we had years ago used to pull like mad going out for his walk and we used take a couple of steps then stop when he started pulling and made him sit and then off again and treated after every couple of steps if he didn't pull. To begin with it used to take me 20 minutes to get to the park which was all of 5 minutes away! I also found that if I walked a little faster he didn't pull as our pace was more evenly matched, one of theproblemd of having abig dog and being only 5' 4". He never pulled on the way home though and usually ambled along carrying his lead.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

Hi, Buster is now 13 months old, and OMG can that dog pull, up until 3 weeks ago we always gave him treats when out walking and talking to him a lot, until my hubby came home 3 weeks ago after talking to a work collegue, who had just got a new dog and he claimed withing a week his dog was walking to heel and responding really well, he said when the dog pulls just stand still (which we did do but not consistently), don't give treats, don't talk to him.
So we tried it and a few weeks in although Buster isn't perfect i would say he is probally 85 - 90% improved which after having the little man since he was 8weks old to now 13 months old we are so happy, we have a halti lead i couldn't be happier. Now i just need some advice on how to stop him barking in the garden then i am a very happy lady.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

When I posted last night I was feeling positive we had made a few improvements. This morning's walk was a nightmare.

We walked across the small green space next to our house to go to the park, I just let Monty sniff and amble along the way.

I then saw coming round the corner a lady who lives in the next road to us, whose house we have to walk past whenever we want to get to the open fields behind our houses, so almost every day. I am supremely jealous of her for the following reasons - she always looks alert and made up, wearing tight lycra shorts in all weathers, fit, slim and with a year round tan, and has a yorkie that she lets roam across the driveway, (end of a cul de sac so very safe, he never seems to run away) who simply runs behind her whenever she goes out jogging (most days it seems)

So this morning our paths crossed about 7.15, me in wellies, a fleece, leggings and generally unwashed and uncombed, she in contrast all of the previously mentioned above. I made Monty sit and 'leave', our command for ignoring other dogs, which he did while they approached, I thought fab, he's not going to chase that little yorkshire terrier at all, then at the last second he darted round my opposite side, spinning me round in a complete circle in the mud, I barely held on to his lead whilst he pulled me forward for many steps through a muddy puddle until I could eventually grip the ground again.

She just laughed at us, said 'morning' and her well behaved dog just trotted behind her. (yes I am totally jealous of her, her jogging and her dog)

Monty suitably buoyed up, it was then a complete pull-fest to the park where I had planned to let him run off lead with some spaniels who are there each morning rather than a pavement walk. So he pulled with all his might and then got let off the lead to play, all his dreams came true.
When I put his lead back on to walk away and they were still playing, he practically welded himself to ground and would not move on. At all. Embarrassing morning all round, we were only out 20 minutes.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

I'm sorry you had a bad walk.

But don't worry, that glamorous lady in full make up, with a perfectly behaved dog, one day.... will slip in a puddle, land slap on her bum in a big pile of sticky mud, and you'll be there to see it! But you won't laugh, you'll be gracious, and hurry over with a very concerned look on you face saying "Oh my goodness! Are you ok? A fall at your age is no joke...". ;D ;D ;D

In the meantime, though....

Young Labradors are not small adult dogs - they just aren't.

And - sorry, but it's a fair question - what have you done about training Monty to walk, on lead, around off lead dogs? This is a very difficult thing for some Labradors to do - they are not born knowing how to do it. You need a trainer, or a class, really, where you can train around other dogs controlling distance and so on.

[quote author=leejane link=topic=10090.msg148665#msg148665 date=1426024081]
So he pulled with all his might and then got let off the lead to play, all his dreams came true.
[/quote]

Um...you know that's not going to help. You know that already.

Change your routine. Drive to off lead places. Train on lead walking only as a training exercise, and find a way to train in a controlled environment around other dogs.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

Um...you know that's not going to help. You know that already.
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Oh, absolutely. I took the easy way out this morning, I was tired and had a short time before I had to get ready for work and I chose to let him run for ten minutes as he was completely revved up, instead of some proper walking training.

We did do classes last year, but were really unhappy with them in the end - we felt quite patronised each session, frequent lectures on how dangerous your dog can be, etc and she allowed little time for proper socialising, all dogs were on the lead at all times and had little if any interaction with each other. Our only other reasonably local class is a serious agility class that we would be completely out of our depth in. Monty does meet new dogs every day, and he is slowly getting better at ignoring / paying not too much attention to some of them, but this morning was just not one of those days - he is hypnotised by dogs running around him (as opposed to walking)

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

[quote author=leejane link=topic=10090.msg148675#msg148675 date=1426027721]
I was tired and had a short time before I had to get ready for work and I chose to let him run for ten minutes as he was completely revved up, instead of some proper walking training.
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Just don't train in these circumstances, drive him to the park and let him have his run. Train when you are not tired, and not in a rush.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

I know, but a 200 yard drive against a 100 yard walk seems a bit mad ... and not very green ;D

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

That wouldn't bother me, to be honest. It's a small price to pay for a dog that will walk on a lead for the next decade plus.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

[quote author=JulieT link=topic=10090.msg148676#msg148676 date=1426027996]
[quote author=leejane link=topic=10090.msg148675#msg148675 date=1426027721]
I was tired and had a short time before I had to get ready for work and I chose to let him run for ten minutes as he was completely revved up, instead of some proper walking training.
[/quote]

Just don't train in these circumstances, drive him to the park and let him have his run. Train when you are not tired, and not in a rush.
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This is the best advice leejane.

Any reward for pulling will re-enforce the pulling. A run in the park with other dogs is a huge jackpot!

There is one thing that works in puppy/dog training - you need to be more determined than they are!

It's a good idea to think about what you are going to do before you set off - and definitely before you feel tired and weary or you'll lose your determination. In other words, have a plan

Good luck - keep at it, it's worth it!

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

Julie and mags have given you very good advice. I would just like to add though that I think it's a good idea to have some sort of plan to manage monty when real life takes over. It takes a long time to train a young dog to be calm around off lead dogs and there will be days you will be tired.

The next time you meet the perfect lady with the perfect dog if you have a way of getting monty's attention it will help to distract him and keep him calmer. It will also help with his training. You need to find something he can't resist. I carry a tub of smelly salmon treats in my pocket at all times. If a dog is approaching I wait until my dogs have seen it then I get the treats out and use them to keep their attention on me as we pass or while they sit as the other dogs pass. This has worked really well my dogs have gone from reacting at dogs passing us to virtually ignoring them and I no longer need to get the salmon out they get it when we've passed. The other thing you could try, if it's possible, is once you've got his attention change direction until the other dog has moved on or move so you have as much space as possible.

Just an idea incase the situation is unavoidable.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

Thanks, will take all your comments on board. Back to a much better short walk this morning, machine gunning those treats into him as he walked nicely! I think I concentrate and feel upset about the bad walks and forget the good walks too easily.
Although I've been scarred by out local training classes I might start to look for suitable ones further afield. The puling when meeting other dogs is probably my biggest issue with him right now and I do see how a good class could help this.

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

As Jen says special treats may help to distract Monty as the other dog passes. I usually have several different types of treat on me so can give Juno something special. As she loves all other dogs and would stop to say hello to all lf them I use a few special treats to distract when necessary. Usually means that she's watching them as they go pass but more fixed on the treat. Juno's favourite is Nature's Menu freeze dried meat snacks. Not cheap but very effective for special occasions.

I know you'll succeed with Monty it's just when we're tired and harassed everything seems so much worse, I always try and think of it as one step forward and two steps back with a puppy.

[quote author=leejane link=topic=10090.msg148665#msg148665 date=1426024081]

So this morning our paths crossed about 7.15, me in wellies, a fleece, leggings and generally unwashed and uncombed, she in contrast all of the previously mentioned above. I made Monty sit and 'leave', our command for ignoring other dogs, which he did while they approached, I thought fab, he's not going to chase that little yorkshire terrier at all, then at the last second he darted round my opposite side, spinning me round in a complete circle in the mud, I barely held on to his lead whilst he pulled me forward for many steps through a muddy puddle until I could eventually grip the ground again.

She just laughed at us, said 'morning' and her well behaved dog just trotted behind her. (yes I am totally jealous of her, her jogging and her dog)

[/quote]

Had to laugh at your description as it reminded me of my Italian Spinone who managed to have me land on my bum on a wet slippery bridge when he decided to launch himself at an oncoming cyclist. Don't know who was more embarrassed me or the cyclist as he cam to a screeching halt. ;D

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

Just a quick headcollar update - I haven't used it since I posted here, and have been trying hard on the loose lead walking, now ever more important as Monty isn't running anywhere for the next few months.

I was getting ready for work yesterday morning and head left him in the kitchen / dinging room. It later occurred to me there was a 12 kilo bag of food left propped up against the wall, open, which he could snaffle. i popped downstairs to check he hadn't tried munching his way through the lot, and found him gently chewing the Gencon headcollar. Nothing else touched, just a fabric lead in four frayed pieces. This lead was up on top of his cage behind his blankets, but that clever dog had sniffed out and destroyed the one thing he hated.
What a waste of £16....

 

Re: Failed on the loose lead walking - resorted to head collar

Now that is one clever boy and he ignored the bag of food - are you sure he's a Labrador? I can just imagine the look on his face when you appeared and realised what he was chewing. I hope you haven't told him yet that the shops do have more of them.......