Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question; I considered labrador chat - if there's a better spot, an admin should feel free to move it. Thanks. I live on 25 remote acres in a very rural area. However, a lot of it fronts the road, which is only very occasionally traveled (maybe 15 cars a day max? most days 5?), but the speed limit is 35mph and people often go 50-55. About 5 acres is cleared, the rest is brush-to-woods, some trails, a brook; a lot of that area is deep off the road. My older dog is a relentless car chaser and recently, since the puppy and I took down my invisible fence, he will run off into the woods (hunting season, not a good plan for a big black dog!) or, today, down the road. Just because he wants off-leash time and hasn't been getting it because of these types of incidents, so vicious circle. But the time I gave up on him in the woods for a bit and went to the house to regroup and get a leash, some treats, warmer clothes, etc., he showed up at the door pretty quickly (before I got back out there, so five minutes?). When we were trying to catch up with him, puppy stayed super close to me and came when called enthusiastically if she got far. I had no treats at the time. Puppy stays very close generally, and ideally, I would train her (them both) to be reliable off-leash and able to stay within the boundaries without a fence. I am considering fencing off an area with woven wire and T-posts or wooden posts) to be able to let them out to pee/poop. Then I wonder what good that is; my older dog was always bored out of his mind with the invisible fence area of 2 acres or so around the house. Even though I think the boundary was somewhat intimidating, I don't see him/them really doing much in an enclosed fenced area after the novelty wears off. OTOH taking both of them out to pee constantly, especially with one potty training, is tiring and it's cold out. I need exercise, but not THAT much. And it's only getting colder. Wondering how other people with country land handle fencing/no fencing/keeping dogs within a boundary and meeting their needs for exercise and potty?
Where I currently live, we have an acre and the back yard is fenced in. I really only used that for a bathroom area and periodic fetch during the day, and for additional exercise, we do 2 walks a day, am and pm. We are building on an acre on the lake and will be moving in March. There we plan on doing the invisible fencing since regular fencing would be unsightly on the lake side and I need some kind of way of keeping Corona out of the lake all day. Not exactly the kind of property that you are dealing with though. If I had all that acreage I would resort to the invisible fencing, it's better than nothing. I would hate to have your pups hit by a car. Even more, I would hate to be the one that hit a dog, I would feel awful.
I distinctly remember this quote by Pippa on the main site "a garden quickly becomes as boring to a dog as the kitchen"...ok, I've paraphrased, but you get the idea. A big fenced area is not meant to be used as simulation/entertainment for your dog. We have a large garden that Xena doesn't have access to (because chickens), and a small courtyard that she does. This area isn't big enough for fetch or anything substantial. Physical exercise is all done elsewhere. But just being able to just open the back door and let Xena go for a wee and sit in the sun without me worrying about her is priceless. I know how expensive fencing is, but I think it'd be a real sanity saver for you - it doesn't have to be massive!
So the thing is, I realized when my neighbor brush hogged and ran over my fence and it was off for a while, that my older dog felt very inhibited by the fence. He just wouldn't let loose and really be himself in the fenced-in area, even though it was large. In retrospect, I think he is afraid of getting excited in play and accidentally crossing the boundary, or my puppy going over the boundary and him not being able to follow. Actual fencing is so expensive though and it really blocks the main house/outbuildings area from the rest of the acreage in a way that I don't like. I won't let them out off-leash at all anymore, and my older dog has proven I can't give him any freedom until/unless he gets way more reliable. Believe me, he is on super-strict leash restriction now. This morning's escape was terrifying. Not the early-morning run I needed! He has also taken off across the invisible fencing a few times. Once, to get to my son and his care person who were on the other side of it. Another time or two just to run off toward something exciting. Then he won't come back across because the adrenaline's worn off and who wants that experience again? (The fence was only on vibrate/beep, no shock, but that's enough to deter him from returning.) @Xena Dog Princess - that's exactly what it seems like, a fenced area doesn't really work all that well. Although I keep thinking if I could fence all the cleared land, like 5 acres, that would be great - but way too expensive. Hmmm, so yes, I'm thinking you're right - I need a small, fenced pee/poop area that goes to the door, and then to take them out for romps a few times a day with a long line or leash, when I can really supervise, or in the deep woods where I don't have to worry about cars with my older dog. I just need to figure out those logistics. And decide if I might do the invisible fence just for winter, for both, to buy time until I can figure out where to fence. The other factor is that we'll soon have 2-6 feet of snow on the ground until May with only a path from the house to a plowed driveway.
Dogs don't need to be outside unattended. They don't exercise themselves, because your garden, however large, becomes boring. The excitement comes from hunting far and wide, which is obviously dangerous for many reasons. I know it's rather boring to do all the toilet training, but the thing is, if you're just letting the pup free outside in a garden, you're not toilet training anyway. Many people who leave the door open for their puppies and are pleased when their pup takes itself out, then get frustrated when there are accidents at a much later age because the door is shut. They then have to go through toilet training again with a much older puppy, which is far, far harder. the outside doesn't toilet train, you do. Older dogs are able to hold their wee and poo between walks, so it's not something that lasts forever. Even though it can feel it at the time, I know! You already know the invisible fence is a bad idea. Dogs cross it to chase and then won't come back. Even when the collars are set to shock; the adrenaline makes them impervious to the pain on the way out, but then they're stuck outside. Even in winter, dogs need to be walked. I live in a ski resort, so know what it can be like in the snow. But, even if you physically can't get anywhere because the snow is too deep, you can go outside and play games with your dogs in the garden for the same amount of time as you'd walk them for. Dig snow-holes, throw snowballs, kick snow up at them. It's all fun and wears them out really well
I find it a really, really strange concept that anyone would even think an invisible fence is a good idea. It's clearly a terrible one! I also find it strange that it is viewed as a problem not being able to allow a dog to entertain himself outside without a human there. This just isn't something I would do, I find it a very strange idea. But I do know that in other countries, it's a routine thing to do. It doesn't compute for me though. I have a fenced garden in London, my dogs go out to the garden (with me) to go to the toilet. My older dog pretty much refuses to pee and poo in the garden anyway. Then we train together, we walk together, and we hang out together. Where I live in the country, for part of the year in the summer, the gardens are not secure. We do the same - we train together, we walk together, we hang out together. Not having a secure outside space just doesn't matter to me because I'd never leave my dogs outside alone. Edited to add: if I had land, which I don't, and a dog that needed to be trained in an enclosed area, I'd fence in a small paddock. Actually, I'd do that anyway to create a training field.
This is effectively what we have. We have an acre enclosed, which I can use for training/playing when there are distractions around (our neighbour's in-season dog, other dogs and hunters coming through our land etc). Our house is in this area and the door is always open when it's warm enough, but the dogs don't go out there without one of us, they just have no interest. It would be the same were it two acres or ten. The rest of the land is large - 7 hectares - and the dogs only go out there accompanied. On lead when the hunters are around, or if there's any other reason it's necessary. Otherwise, off lead. But always with us. When we're in Andorra, we don't have land at all, just a terrace. Nothing changes. We go out for walks or training together, and the rest of the time they spend inside with me. I don't think it is (or should be) anything to do with how much land you have. If you have a dog that runs off on walks, that's a training thing. You need to train him to stay close to you, alongside working on a recall to get him back if he does chase something.
Same here - large fenced secure back garden, Poppy hates it unless we are out there with her. She won't even pee or poo without us accompanying her! What she really does love is when the weather is warm and she can sit outside the open front door in the sunshine watching the world go by, while still being close to us(the front yard is also secure, with a lockable gate). So - I would concentrate on walking to heel on and off leash and recall training, and fence an area adjacent to the front or back door, so your dogs can go in and out in good weather and still be in your company.
Yeah, I never expect my dogs to go outside and entertain themselves, and certainly didn't mean to imply that I do. With the invisible fence or a smallish fenced area, the idea was simply for the dog to be able to go out to poop/pee in between long, supervised walks and play sessions. And a place where I know I can work with them off-leash. Plus my older dog does enjoy laying on the porch at times, and also an outside secure area is a place for him to get away from the puppy (I have a very small house and he was never crate-trained). I never leave the door open - bugs in summer, cold in winter - so they always have to ask to go out. What I mean is him running off when off-leash with me outside with him. He is fast. One minute he's 50 feet away sniffing and would come when I call, the next second he's on the trail of something and completely unresponsive and I can't get through the brush the way he does so I'm out of luck. I am working on recall training with him, but it's slow going. I have Total Recall. Just a lot of work with the puppy as well and hunting season underway. With her crying in the crate if I leave, I can't take him out for solo training right now, which is probably part of why he's running off - he's not getting his usual level of exercise. Thanks for the input and helping me think it through. After thinking about it, I definitely don't think I'll reconnect the invisible fence. I think we'll make it through winter without any fenced area, and I'll sketch some designs for a fenced paddock of an acre or two for training, that encloses at least one of my house doors so they can also go out to pee/poop or just hang out a little unsupervised. It's impossible to explain without a picture, but the way my house/land is situated that isn't an easy task, to design just a couple acres that doesn't cut into the structures and use of the land that is already here (garden, trampoline, pool, various sheds and my detached garage).
I would have a fenced area and count this as 'garden' for him. The rest I would count as 'wild'. He won't know or care if it's your property or not
We have a large fenced back yard with a dog door so they can go in and out at will. Tilly normally only goes out to go to the bath room or with us. Cooper will go out and spend a lot of time exploring, playing with toys, or watching our neighbor's dog. We always have water bowl outside as well as the one in the kitchen. There is a puppy pool during warm weather and both of them will play in it. We have a Ruffware tug toy that looks like a bird dummy on nylon tube with a bunge inside. It is hanging from the upper deck, and Cooper loves to play with it. When we were potty training them we took them out, but it did not take too long before they knew to go out on their own. Both of them will typically go down stairs and out before they go to bed. They are both 100% reliable with regard to potty training.
