Fox red puppies

Discussion in 'Labrador breeding & genetics' started by boogs83, Apr 8, 2016.

  1. boogs83

    boogs83 Guest

    We have only had our little guy Albie a few weeks and whilst he's hard work he's totally adorable :) He is purebred with a great line of pedigree but has a white toe and small white mark on his chest. Having researched fox reds before putting our deposits down on Albie this is completely normal with the fox reds as all yellows can have these marks but on a lighter colour it doesn't show. Having been to our local vets 3 times now I find it massively frustrating getting quizzed and asked what he is mixed with to the point of almost arguing with the vet that he is full Labrador pedigree. Are vets just not educated in breeding and genetics of animals? Sorry rant over just find it a little rude that's all
     
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  2. kateincornwall

    kateincornwall Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    @boogs83 Try not to let it get to you , even though it obviously does . My black Lad Sam is also from a great lineage, but because he is tall and leggy , I also get asked what he is crossed with , I`m often tempted to just say Dalmation and walk off smiling ;)
     
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  3. editor

    editor Administrator

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    I know exactly how you feel, my red lab has no white on her but her (impeccable) pedigree is questioned every time I take her in the pub :) Two of her siblings had some white toes and one had a white chest flash just like his Mum, who was also my dog. Just smile and nod - as those who ask are simply unfamiliar with working strain labs and your vet is clearly one of them!
     
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  4. Raven12

    Raven12 Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Jura is fox red, and also tall and leggy. What she is crossed with is an almost daily question I get asked on walks. I just laugh it off now, particularly the women who once told me at that her dog was a pure labradoodle, but mine was obviously a cross!
     
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  5. boogs83

    boogs83 Guest

    Ha so glad I'm not alone! I don't mind members of the public asking but you would expect the vets to know more about different breeds. Another point is every time we visit the vets they ask what food we are using and I tell them we are using a all life stage cold pressed food. Each time they say it's dangerous not to feed puppy food and when I explain our chosen food has all the right percentages they don't listen and just harp on about buying their recommended food
     
  6. Dexter

    Dexter Moderator Forum Supporter

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    I went to a 'vet ' once who told me Dexter had a skin condition because he has darker pigment patches on his tummy in places .....both his parents were black and there is absolutely nothing wrong with his skin! enjoy Albie,if he is working line ,prepare yourself for a lifetime of questioning from members of the public .....
     
  7. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    I do smile a little bit when this conversation happens. :) If the breed standard is unimportant to breeders of working line dogs, and what matters is just working ability - the dogs won't end up looking very similar! :)

    If you want all the working line Labs to look similar so they become easily recognisable as the same breed, then they have to be breed to some kind of definition of a standard look. But this concept is dismissed by the breeder/owner of the working line Lab....so perhaps you should instead celebrate, and not be cross, when your dogs are not recognised as Labradors? In a way, you can take it as a compliment! :D
     
  8. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator

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    Unless form follows function when you will get similar if not exactly the same dogs?......
     
  9. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Well working line Labradors clearly have a huge variation and don't look very similar at all, in general (some do, of course, there are some working line dogs that look more like show line dogs than the average show line dogs). They vary from 18kg tiny things, to 26inches plus, 35kg plus dogs, with a lot of variation in head shape, coat and tail.

    I've often mulled over whether there should be a separate breed standard for working line Labs (whenever anyone says 'I love the look of working line dogs' I wonder 'but what is that look?'). If you didn't want to include looks in your breed standard, then you still can't end up getting dogs that look the same, it seems to me. Because, for example, people could start breeding Labradors to have dalmatian coloured coats, and that would be ok (in a way, it is ok, of course).
     
  10. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator

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    I think it depends how tight you want the aesthetic to be. You see some breeds and they're like cookie cutters and then others where they're recognisable but varied like jack russells. I'm happy with the latter and I'd like to think I'd recognise most labs as labs. I don't like very houndy labs or coffee table labs but I still see them as labs.
    What I struggle with more is that the breed standard is supposed to describe the ideal working labrador. That can't be a true statement though if the labs that genuinely work are moving away from that standard.
     
  11. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    Is that right that it can't be true? Or maybe there just is no consensus about what 'ideal' is any more? Is it really the case that 'ideal' can include 20inch, 20kg dogs, and 25 inch, 40kg dogs? Maybe it can, dunno.

    The standard was drawn up by men with working dogs in the early part of last century, so it might be out of date of course.
     
  12. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator

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    If there's no consensus on ideal then the standard can't describe something that doesn't exist.

    Personally I'm ok with a pocket rocket lab and a supermodel leggy lab and most things in between. I can accommodate all those as labs. My personal preference is neither of those things but that's fine. Each type will have strengths on different types of ground.
     
  13. JulieT

    JulieT Registered Users

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    That's fine, of course - but then people shouldn't really moan when they don't look the same and Joe Public doesn't recognise them! :D:D:D
     
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  14. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator

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    They're not cars, they don't come off a production line exactly the same :D
     
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  15. bbrown

    bbrown Moderator

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    And I couldn't care less what Joe Public thinks of my dogs, current or future. I have much more important things to worry about - like heelwork aaaaaggggghhhhh:facepalm::cwl:
     
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  16. Cath

    Cath Registered Users

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    I have three sons, all from the same stable, but oh boy they all look so different :rolleyes:

    So just smile @boogs83 and take no notice. :) You love Albie and that is all that matters.
     
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  17. Jes72

    Jes72 Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    I've nearly given up the argument. Most say he's definitely a ridgeback. Nooooo have you seen a ridgeback! I want to say he's crossed with a kangaroo, but have never used that line yet.

    No he's a lab a pure bred fit healthy lab!
    But then again he gets lots of complements on how handsome he is too.
     

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  18. Oberon

    Oberon Moderator

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    Just because a dog is 'working' (ie retrieving things) doesn't mean they have the best conformation for the intended function. The breed standard sets out what is considered to be the best conformation for the function of being a strong, effective retriever that can swim well, is steady around loud noises, can carry a load, and that also looks like a Labrador.

    It seems to me that here is an emphasis on speed in working line Labradors these days, but that is not the function Labradors were designed for. It's come at the expense of things like proper coats that shed water, strong jaws, good clearance in front of the chest. Those aspects of function haven't been attended to in working lines, though they still are in show lines.
     
  19. Stacia

    Stacia Registered Users

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    No mistaking he is a Lab :D and a very handsome boy.
     
  20. Oberon

    Oberon Moderator

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    The above was not in reference to your post, Jes :)
     

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