Re: Getting attention at a distance a subject close to my heart. My two are very different. Cuillin just wants to interact with me on walks, she always looks vaguely bored, though quite happy, just scampering about. she will constantly come back to me, her current habit is to nudge the dummy bag with her nose in the hope of a retrieve, or 'ask' for her ball. She much prefers constant interaction, but I do like to just walk with her sometimes, just pootling along. Brodick, and this is my fault, much prefers to hunt in the presence of hunty smells. I dont like just taking Brodick for 'walks' unless we are on the beach, then he is the same as Cuillin, very focused on me and C, and wanting to interact the whole time rather than run off hunting. For me its about control, I don't feel comfy with B just haring off on his own, I don't need to worry about C, I know she is ok. I spent a lot of time interacting with C on walks one to one when she was little, this probably explains why she is like she is, though all dogs are different I guess, and Brodick certainly has a higher hunt drive than her naturally. she seems to have a great love of retrieving too... I struggle with getting B's attention too when he is 'busy' - so this is a good thread (not that he is allowed to be 'busy' much just now!).
Re: Getting attention at a distance I think you can take your dogs for a walk but you must have control and for some dogs that comes easier than others. High drive dogs can be awfully challenging and they may need to be under orders when out and about. If you've invested a lot of time and effort into training your dog to do a job of work letting him in on the secret that all opportunities to hunt don't have to come from you can be the unraveling of all that work. If however your dog has a bimble mode you may be quite happy to let them mooch about. You should still have control should it need to be applied however With regards to the questions about sitting whilst on the move or at a distance all I can say is it's hard! And took us quite a while to get to the point where Riley realised that the whistle meant sit down not come next to me and sit down. I tried loads of things, some worked on some days and not on others.....it was a bit of trial and error. I used to stop, [whistle and hand signal sit] and then walk on without him Then when he started anticipating the sit with just the whistle I did stop, [whistle sit], walk on Next [whistle, hand signal, sit] whilst carrying on reeeeeeaaaally slowly Again I could drop the hand signal after a while Now I can walk at a steady pace and he'll stop to the whistle Round the house at a distance of a few feet [whistle, hand signal, sit] Dropped the hand signal now but the whistle sit is always within sight Out and about if he stops to look at me [whistle, hand signal, sit] we can do this up to 20 metres now including if he needs help with a retrieve - he'll look at me and I'll ask for a sit before I give him direction I'm just starting to try and catch the point either just before he goes for a really good sniff or just as he's stopping and I'll gradually build up so that any time he's sniffing he'll park his bum and look at me. I also occasionally stop him on a retrieve but it makes him sticky on the following retrieve when he does a kind of half halt anticipating the stop so I can't use this very often So you can see how we've built up over many months! This was and is not an easy thing for us, little and often with great rewards has been the key though. Hope that waffle helps in some way
Re: Getting attention at a distance On the walk thing, Barbara is right - "does your pet dog have a bimble mode?" is a very good question! I love my dog dearly, but there is no doubt whatsoever that he has hooligan tendencies. He is a young, over excited, over distracted, over friendly, over enthusiastic, Labrador that lives to find fun. And for all his show background, he seems as keen as the next dog to leg it off into a wood and have a good hunt for interesting things to chase. If I didn’t make as much effort as I do – sadly probably a lot wasted through general incompetence - would Charlie just grow up, and settle down, and be calm, sensible, dog who trots along by my side, off lead or on? I’m not at all sure… Sure there are quite a lot of dogs – generally older and quieter and who no doubt grew up in homes that at least insisted on the basics of training – that are ok off lead. But there are a huge amount more that are not, and their owners just live with them galloping up to other people and their dogs (usually me and my dog it seems), legging it off for a few minutes but coming back eventually, and so on. Then, I suspect there are many, many, many more who are not allowed off lead because their behaviour is generally appalling or are only allowed off lead where they are very unlikely to bother anyone else. In the areas I walk, which are busy with so many other people and dogs and children, most dogs I see off lead shouldn’t be. Most young dogs, and certainly most labs under 18months, jump up or approach joggers, and their owners don’t or can’t do anything about it. They approach every other dog, on lead or not (usually me and my dog it seems) and if there is an objection (usually by me) the owner invariably says “don’t worry, he’s friendly” - even when the blasted dog is growling and snarling ("it's ok! He's only playing!). Makes me want to shout “friendly or not, call your beeping dog, we don’t want to play right now!”. I don’t because it’s not normal to do so, and also I’ve found that there is very little chance the owner could recall the dog away. And at least 50% of the dogs I see on lead are wearing a halti or other anti-pull device (which might be fine, but they are wearing them because they have not been trained not to pull). And another 25% are pulling into flat or even choke collars. Leaving 25% walking nicely. And that’s only the ones that are not confined to the backyard because they are too much of a nightmare to walk. I have just walked down the street and back with Charlie. And every second my attention had to be on him, and what he was doing, and whether he was keeping his lead loose or whether he was about to pull me into the back of the Waitrose van to say hello to the delivery man (he didn’t, but only because I got his attention). He is too young and boisterous for me to do otherwise. Hopefully, we looked relaxed and like we were going for a walk – it didn’t feel like a walk though, it felt like pet dog training. Ooops – turned into an awful ramble, sorry…been thinking quite a lot about it.
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=Karen link=topic=3548.msg39522#msg39522 date=1386247078] Most people, those with show labs, or labradoodles, or many other breeds of dogs, are perfectly happy with 'just' their walks. It's the dogs that were bred to fulfill other jobs than simply be companions, that need special treatment. [/quote] I don't think this is right about show labs - or at least all show labs - it might be my incompetence, but I don't find mine is ok just with walks at least what we mean by walks. And from the number of show bred labs I see out of control on the common and beach, they don't look like they should be going for a walk either...
Re: Getting attention at a distance I'm not sure you can generalise about breeds, types, or even ages, each dog is different with different needs and different desires. Riley has definitely chilled out from his teenage chaos time and he's not a hard hunting dog but he is still overly friendly and to this day we haven't got this completely cracked so I watch like a hawk for other dogs. As a result he often looks well behaved but DON'T BE FOOLED ;D He's a little horror desperate to leg it over and jump all over your dog! But we work at it - hard! Sadly some people don't give their dog the walk or the training most appropriate for their dog. The dog is expected to do the walk, exercise, training(or lack thereof) the owner most wants to do. Sometimes it works out, sometimes (particularly with hunters) it doesn't Luckily our dogs have us ;D
Re: Getting attention at a distance I thought I would show you what Alice's 'bimbling' mode is. When she seriously opens up the throttles then you are in for a white knuckle ride. ;D She is my picking up dog so hunting is not really her bread and butter stuff, nevertheless she loves it given half a chance. Her stop whistles are not like Caddie's or Murffi's, I accept a stand rather than a sit from her, simply because when we are out picking up everything has to happen quickly, stop whistle followed by a quick redirection. From my other dogs I expect a sit to he stop whistle, because it is very often on a flush that I blow the stop whistle, and a sitting dog is a steadier dog than a standing dog. http://youtu.be/CtvsMXGc790
Re: Getting attention at a distance I get a bit fed up with comments about dog owners that let their dogs off lead are irresponsible, not all of us are I am a first time dog owner and Hattie is a very well behaved off lead dog that gets walked in all kinds of places for almost 2 hours a day, her recall is probably 95% but she is learning all the time, every day to come back to my whistle in all kinds of situations, if she was on lead how would she learn? Charlie is a different kettle of fish and we work extremely hard with him. Can everyone honestly say their well behaved/trained dogs have 100% recall and behave 100% of the time? I doubt it, sounds like parents saying their children are little angels - NOT.
Re: Getting attention at a distance Yup that definitely looks like half speed ;D As an aside where was the wind coming from? She seemed to travel further forward as she went to your right than she did as she went to your left so was the wind across the line you were walking? Or did the fence line draw her forward? Or am I asking absolutely ridiculous questions? ;D
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=charlie link=topic=3548.msg39547#msg39547 date=1386253389] I get a bit fed up with comments about dog owners that let their dogs off lead are irresponsible, not all of us are I am a first time dog owner and Hattie is a very well behaved off lead dog that gets walked in all kinds of places for almost 2 hours a day, her recall is probably 95% but she is learning all the time, every day to come back to my whistle in all kinds of situations, if she was on lead how would she learn? Charlie is a different kettle of fish and we work extremely hard with him. Can everyone honestly say their well behaved/trained dogs have 100% recall and behave 100% of the time? I doubt it, sounds like parents saying their children are little angels - NOT. [/quote] Hope that wasn't me - it can't have been, I called my dog a hooligan, not an angel. ;D Hattie no doubt is absolutely well behaved (of course that's not 100%). You've probably done an excellent job with her, first dog or not! I just don't meet very many Hatties, unfortunately.
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=charlie link=topic=3548.msg39547#msg39547 date=1386253389] I get a bit fed up with comments about dog owners that let their dogs off lead are irresponsible, not all of us are [/quote] That's certainly not what I meant and I apologise if you think I did. I'm the same as you, Riley isn't perfect and I let him off his lead. I try to be very vigilant to pre-empt any legging it to see other dogs. This means I recall him while I still have his focus and get him to heel. Sometimes though I miss my chance but then I go and get him! He is NOT allowed to please himself and self reward. And THAT is the difference between what you, I and a lot of people on this forum do and owners who just let their dogs mug any and all comers and who (with their dogs) are a pain in the proverbial ;D Having had my walk slightly spoiled by a beautiful, friendly but over enthusiastic young labradoodle this morning I'm feeling a bit punchy about the whole thing ;D ;D ;D
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=heidrun link=topic=3548.msg39546#msg39546 date=1386253173] http://youtu.be/CtvsMXGc790 [/quote] That's wonderful! Gosh. So inspiring. Off to have another go at our stop whistle!
Re: Getting attention at a distance Wow, just watching the video of Alice makes me feel exhausted!!! If ever you hear me mention the words 'We're thinking of getting a working cocker as our second dog', remind me not to!!!!! She's gorgeous, absolutely stunning, like all your dogs Heidrun, but I know they would just not be the dogs for me. I want a bit of down time and to be able to go for a gentle wander, not a high-octane, intense training session each time I go out the door. And that's probably the secret: Pick the kind of dog that is going to be right for you. In addition, I think I must just be very lucky where I live. Almost everyone lets their dogs off lead; almost all of them are very well-behaved. The ones that aren't are generally on the lead. And I think they learn to get along with each other through socializing off lead. I suppose the difference to walking on Wimbledon Common is that there aren't so many dogs (or people), and we all get to know each other pretty well.
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=Karen link=topic=3548.msg39554#msg39554 date=1386254934] . In addition, I think I must just be very lucky where I live. Almost everyone lets their dogs off lead; almost all of them are very well-behaved. The ones that aren't are generally on the lead. And I think they learn to get along with each other through socializing off lead. [/quote] I suspect it's not just luck, but a cultural distinction too. It's been a long time since I lived in Germany, Karen, but my guess would be that the concept of 'social responsibility' is still much stronger there... I'm not sure that badly behaved dogs would be tolerated in the same way as they are here??? Clare
Re: Getting attention at a distance I've just come in from playing lumber jack with a massive pine tree that has come down at the bottom of the garden and gone over the lane. I was the lumber jacks labourer !! I have to agree with Julie and barbara about people with no control letting dogs off lead I'm afraid. That's no control Helen you have control and you are aware in situations that you haven't. I still walk my two with haltis even though they walk perfectly to heel with their collar. This is my personal decision for safety. My dogs combined weight is as heavy as me and while they are very well behaved on lead as I've said before the country lanes we walk have fast cars if they were to decide to shoot off after a rabbit or something I'd have no chance! Thank you for explaining how you did the stop whistle Barbara I will keep persevering. Question though is it possible to get all labs to a working standard? Not all labs bred to be guide dogs can be. I can't imagine my two ever learning the stop whistle and it's one of the things I would love them to do. Mine are pure working bred dogs and Iam fully aware of how much work that means for me to keep them satisfied for want of a better word. I'm not sure though if a gundog trainer/ handler had them they would keep them for working. A local gundog handler told me he got rid of his only male lab because it was taking too long to train! I read an article in the shooting times a few years ago that said bitches are easier to train than dogs. They are more biddable and on a shoot the majority will be bitches. I wonder if there is a differance in the sexes. If bitches are easier. I might be remembering wrong and I'm sure you'll put me right but at the moment I think the majority of us with various training difficulties all own dogs not bitches. Im generalising but i hope you see what i mean. Do you see a difference between Hattie and Charlie Helen? Just a thought Jen
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3548.msg39550#msg39550 date=1386253818] Yup that definitely looks like half speed ;D As an aside where was the wind coming from? She seemed to travel further forward as she went to your right than she did as she went to your left so was the wind across the line you were walking? Or did the fence line draw her forward? Or am I asking absolutely ridiculous questions? ;D [/quote] Good question Barbara. It was actually a head wind, but very very strong and gusty, so lots of scent swirling around. It is very rabbity ground so that fence line would naturally draw her out further, lots of rabbit traffic up and down that fence I would think. ;D
Re: Getting attention at a distance Jen, it's a huge generalization, but I think on the whole bitches are indeed more biddable than dogs. Clare - like anything else, it depends where you live! We live in a quiet, affluent little town outside of Frankfurt. I am sure there are any number of badly-trained, badly-behaved dogs around - just luckily not many where I live!
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=Jen link=topic=3548.msg39517#msg39517 date=1386245548] Yes Angela how did you do it. ??? I was just adding to my previous post about the videos of heidruns dogs when you posted. They are amazing. I don't know if I'm doin it wrong. I keep watching Pippa's vids but if I'm not looking at the dog the sit at heel doesn't happen. I can keep walking and the dog will sit on the peep if I turn my head and look. Guess I'll keep trying that just get a crick in my neck. ;D [/quote] Jen I have only used Pippas video with Rachael....he's still on the lead,I drop the lead ,whistle and I still use his sit hand signal......but you know,now you've said it....I do look back I think that's because I don't trust he'll do it 100% which he doesn't.,he does get up sometimes ,we are still a long way from consistent....I need to get Chris to video us as you don't always know what bad habits you have until you think exactly what you do .......don't want to mislead you that I'm rocking a great stop whistle! I've only just picked this up really in the last week but I've got this far I am really going to try and get it as good as I can .....I can't see the day when he will be away from me and I blow and he sits.....I'm going to have something right interesting and tempting for me to to stop him mid run....I only started doing the stop whistle because I was getting to the end of Total Recall and I'd really enjoyed doing the excercises with him and Heidrun said that together with a good recall ,brakes are probably the most important tool to have .... Going to have to break off as we are going out .........bfn x
Re: Getting attention at a distance OMG !!!!! No unfortunately I haven't solved the getting the attention of an exuberant Labrador at a distance problem. We've only gone and managed to do 6 stop whistles at heel while I walk on, each!!!!!!! Even Scott !!!!!! Even in the raging gale that is still blowing here. To be honest I was surprised they'd do anything in this wind it's very distracting and we also now have a mound at the bottom of the garden caused by the roots of the tree that came down. I thought that would have warrented much more attention. I'm so pleased with them Jen Ps. That's without a lead does that get more brownie points?
Re: Getting attention at a distance This is a really interesting discussion! I just wanted to throw in my two cents about the stop whistle, or whatever means you have of getting your dog to stop at a distance. My previous two dogs were both Border Collies. Totally different in their focus on their owner, their willingness to please, etc. But as I have had the most experience training them, I have to use my experiences with them as an example. We live in a cul-de-sac, and there is a park/field across the road. The park is quite large, bounded on all sides by roads, and has a playground at one end. Previous dog (a BC) was very focussed on me....partly because of the training I did with him (raised him from a puppy) and partly because of the breed. We would often go across the road (on leash) and I would let him off leash at the park and do frisbee with him, which he loved. I didn't worry too much about him running away, he was totally focussed on the frisbee. The park got to be a great place of fun for him, and so, eventually, whenever we went outside he would want to go there. He could be off lead in the cul-de-sac and stay close, but as soon as it was obvious that I was going across the road, he would kick into high gear and race towards the park. But he had to get across the road, and it always frightened me, because due to the nature of the cul-de-sac, of course I could not see if there was any traffic coming. Fortunately the road is not a busy one, so keep that in mind as you read this. The first time he did this I screeched out "Lie down!" as he got to the corner ( a command he knew from training it in the house.). To my surprise, he dropped. I then followed up with "Stay!" and again, he waited until I got to the corner and could check for traffic, and once I gave the all clear ("okay") he would run across the road. My heart was in my mouth, but he obeyed perfectly. I realized that he trusted me more than I knew. So....we would often do this. It got so that as soon as he got to the corner he would drop down without me asking him, and wait for me. Every time, even though, every time, I was a bit afraid that this time, he would run across without me. He never did, bless his heart (it's been a year since he's gone, sniff sniff). The point of my story being, I have learned that there are times when you have to trust your dog and trust your training. I understand about the reluctance to use the stop whistle in fears of "ruining" it, but what's the point of training for it if you are never going to use it when you really need it, in a real life outdoor situation and your dog is going after something you don't want him to? I understand the fear, I felt it many times as I watched my BC streak towards the road. It was a risk I took, yes. But it strengthened and deepened our partnership. I learned I really could trust him, and I suppose, he felt the same way about me. Just my two cents, take or leave as you will
Re: Getting attention at a distance Wow Lisa what a brillant dog. What made you change from border collie and have you noticed a difference in attitude and how they learn? The problem is I have no means of getting my dog to stop at a distance at the moment! I get what you mean though, at some point you have to use the stop and trust that it will work or at least test it. It's probably better to test before you need it. : I hope one day my dogs will do what yours did. I think perhaps I expect too much to soon. It's a hard one to learn. I need to practise patience. Jen
