Re: Getting attention at a distance It's rare Kate but very occasionally if he loses his way a smell will catch him and he'll quickly mark. For instance we did a retrieve into a wood, a lot of dogs found the barrier of the wood line intimidating and the dummy was hard to see in the dark wood. Because the boundary distracted him his focus was taken off the dummy for an instant so he peed on a tree. Then he went into the wood and did a lovely retrieve. He will also pee at heel as we're going from one exercise to another which doesn't bother me but irritates the instructor as it's then distracting for other dogs. It's distinctly possible that the better we get the less it's a problem and to be honest it's not the end of the world as we're unlikely to compete. I'm just imtrigued how the serious people handle the practicalities as I think pet owners use walks for toilet duties as well as exercise, we certainly do
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=editor link=topic=3548.msg39761#msg39761 date=1386342329] Is this the method you are using Julie? And if so, at what point have you got stuck? Can you place a dummy on the ground behind you without Charlie moving? [/quote] Hugely interesting (if a lot of topics in it) thread! All of the following apply only somewhere familiar (inside or in the veg garden) and when Charlie is calm. I can throw behind me, and I'd say to 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock. But I couldn't throw behind me and walk forwards to Charlie. As soon as he thought he could get the dummy before me, he'd make a dash for it. I did put the dummy on a bit of string at one point. : Sometimes we do a bit better - and over the summer, outside, we were doing better than this - it's been worse now he is pent up without enough exercise. At one point I was able to walk out and place the dummy in the veg garden and walk back to Charlie (only about 10m) but it was a step too far - and he dodged round me when I was on my way back on about the 3rd try. I have to be close to Charlie and critically, close to the dummy. It really seems to be a complete game to him. Steadiness seems to mean "that game where I get rewards until she is silly enough to put the dummy in a place where I can get it before her".
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3548.msg39786#msg39786 date=1386345869] Sorry for the hijack :-[ [/quote] Guilty too. These are wonderful threads though - they end up like a real conversation. Er...sorry Jen, I think this was about stop whistle originally!
Re: Getting attention at a distance Can you enlist a helper? Because you need to be near to him to start with you may need either a dummy thrower or someone to stay near the dummy and get there before Charlie? Make sure they know how fast he can be. These labs can be deceptive! When both our boys are up to strength we'll throw some dummies for each other, just need a location where one can stay in the car while we train the other. How's Thruxton off the A303 for you? Bit far? Pub lunch after training....
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=bbrown link=topic=3548.msg39789#msg39789 date=1386346325] When both our boys are up to strength we'll throw some dummies for each other, just need a location where one can stay in the car while we train the other. How's Thruxton off the A303 for you? Bit far? Pub lunch after training.... [/quote] Done!
Re: Getting attention at a distance No need to apologise I'm finding it all very interesting and useful fo future reference. Does charllie have a good sit stay? My two have become much steadier since I've trained the sit stay although I don't think they have the same drive as Charlie. They wouldn't stay if I threw but they will sit stay while I go and place the ball or dummy. We are getting quite good at blind retrieves. Back to my stop whistle both training sessions today we had stop whistle at heel while I walked on at least 6 each time. Obviously we had a few not as well although most of them were stops just not sit. : Slowly slowly trainy doggy ;D
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=Jen link=topic=3548.msg39793#msg39793 date=1386347192] Does charllie have a good sit stay? My two have become much steadier since I've trained the sit stay [/quote] Quite good - depends on distractions. Outside, good with low level of distractions. Another dog up close would knock him off easily for example. Inside - really good. Wafting hot roast chicken doesn't move him now. A dummy would though.
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=Jen link=topic=3548.msg39793#msg39793 date=1386347192] Back to my stop whistle both training sessions today we had stop whistle at heel while I walked on at least 6 each time. Obviously we had a few not as well although most of them were stops just not sit. : [/quote] Yes, back to your stop whistle! That's really good progress. I wonder if stops but not sits matter? I think you want a sit because it's more definite. But a stop is pretty good. I'd be happy, anyway.
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=charlie link=topic=3548.msg39758#msg39758 date=1386341880] [quote author=Jen link=topic=3548.msg39756#msg39756 date=1386341756] Well said Helen and I'm sure all your work will pay off. I agree with you about perfection. It would be wonderful but dogs will be dogs and that's why we love them. [/quote] It might be wonderful but oh soooo boring [/quote] Well, none of my dogs are perfect so no chance of dying of boredom here, thank God. Helen, you do misunderstand my point about taking dogs for walks. Never have I said dogs should not be off lead. I have been out with mine all day today and not once were they on a lead. That is a huge amount of freedom their training has given them.
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=editor link=topic=3548.msg39775#msg39775 date=1386344376] in fact, with four or five dogs at heel, [/quote] Oh Pippa......have you any idea how amazing that simple statement is to me ;D
Re: Getting attention at a distance Ooh this is such an interesting thread....sorry if Im about to mix it up again but what I cant help getting hung up about is the worry that if my dogs are either at heel or retrieving on a ' walk' then they arent getting enough exercise. I could have cuillin doing retrieves for an hour and a half walk Im sure, as she is pretty obsessed, brodick would get bored and I dont want to destroy his interest in retrieving as its getting much better. And this is where I get mixed up with the 'no free running' rule as well. Ive tried having brods walking to heel for an hour and a bits walk (on lead as it was Smelly Hunt Territory) and when we got home he was bouncing off the walls...I'vn interpreted no free running for him as only being allowed to run when he is doing something with me in the course of running, so he gets to do a lot of ball throwing...but not sure he should be doing that either.... Am I just being daft about the amount of 'running' exercise labs need? Im thinking that on your standard shoot, how much running would a proper working retriever do and how much of the day would be walking at heel waiting to retrieve....do gundog breeds like labs ' need' the amount of running I seem to think they do?! Head stuff tires them out just as much of course...
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=debsie link=topic=3548.msg39875#msg39875 date=1386400104] Ooh this is such an interesting thread....sorry if Im about to mix it up again but what I cant help getting hung up about is the worry that if my dogs are either at heel or retrieving on a ' walk' then they arent getting enough exercise. [/quote] I wondered that too - whether once trained, perhaps, retrievers are allowed a lot, and very long, retrieves in training? Although, Charlie is dead on his feet after a gundog lesson, and there isn't a lot of running involved. On my not walks (which probably everyone here would see as a walk) I have 4 ways to allow Charlie to run: a recall game, sit/stays then recall, go find another person (find him/her), and retrieves. The recall game version with 2 people is the best in terms of flat out exercise. We can get him running between two people more than 300m apart now. And sometimes one of us stands at the top of a hill! There are more recall game ideas here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8az4wxnbDQU Once Charlie is better, I'd like to do more of these as most of them only need one person, which is handy.
Re: Getting attention at a distance Thanks Julie will have a look at the one person recall games. Often friends come out with us at the weekends but never during the week as we go first thing for the main trip out so I need some more one person ideas. And hill recalls are a great idea I get them chasing balls up hills, so i will do sit waits at the bottom of hills then recalls once Im at the top. Will train their sit waits as well! I think Ive probably caused this need to run thing by getting them so darned run fit by my lack of understanding of how to manage them exercising when they were younger. They've done a heck of a lot of walks which were about two hours of pretty much none stop running after balls/ cantering about etc and its only since brodick showed his real hunting colours about nine months ago that their walks have had more structure and less running. And they run with me when Im run training...so they both have a big aerobic endurance base, and I think brodick is one of those dogs who gets the runners high then runners contented feeling....what I need is some water near me. Brods retrieves from water for ever given the chance, he gets quite Forrest Gump like and the running in and swimming out and running back to me fair tuckers him...
Re: Getting attention at a distance Again I'm very lucky. We train on our land which is enclosed and safe so when they've done a few good retrieves or sit stay etc I release then say ok race. It only really works when I have them both together but they race off after each other do a couple of laps come back ready to do some more training. I will usually end a training session by letting them race to make sure they've used up all that energy. However I do think since I've been clicker training and also training new things (before the forum I was making the mistake of mainly retrieving) that tires them out perhaps because they use their brain. ??? My problem is self rewarding. They might get a scent on a recall or see the pesky cat on a sit stay (good proofing exercise if I see it first). This has also improved though since the clicker and us having more structured training sessions. Ps. Only just had chance to watch your you tube link for recall games Julie. Its really good thanks will be giving it a go .
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=debsie link=topic=3548.msg39875#msg39875 date=1386400104] Am I just being daft about the amount of 'running' exercise labs need? [/quote] I don't think that's daft at all Debsie.Its an interesting question.I have got Dexter really physically fit.....he gets lots of excercise although me being me,within all the guidelines of safety age wise and he still does minimal stairs and doesn't jump in or out the car .....the occasional leaps over the wall onto the golf course more than balance that out though :his recovery time from really fast running amazes me,his breathing returns to normal in a really short time,and if he is playing with another energetic dog,he will wear the other dog out and still have petrol in the tank ;D he's the fastest ,fittest dog in the park by a country mile and I love that!when we got him I thought that getting good running excercise in was an absolute must and I still feel a bit anxious if he's had no off lead running in his walks for the day but it's just not always possible here.I LOVE seeing him at full throttle,he just looks amazing but I've realised he isn't any worse off that I can see if he only has lead walks ( we did a month of it in October) so do they need the amount of 'running' that we think or are they quite happy with however they get their excercise as long as they are physically and mentally stimulated? My approach to dog ownership is inexperienced and pretty old fashioned I think ;D.....ie I feel like he has to have some off lead running to have had a proper walk and I feel like he has to have food in a bowl to feel like he has had a meal.......that's all I've know though watching my parents with their dogs.I'm shifting though from chats like these and reading I do .......this forum is such a great resource Thanks for the recall game link too Julie,we need to tighten up....Dexter is totally ignoring in cat areas and he's not as sharp from other dogs as I'd like ....but we've only been able to reward with kibble this week while he's had his upset tum
Re: Getting attention at a distance I have had plenty of male dogs over the years, though for the last few years I have had only bitches. I have not had a male retriever that stops to pee whilst retrieving but my males have been very high drive 'hot' dogs. Yours is not an uncommon problem though and may resolve as the dog becomes more focused on work. I would discourage frequent marking at heel, and keep him moving briskly where possible.
Re: Getting attention at a distance I don't think anyone would describe Riley as hot thanks for the tips!
Re: Getting attention at a distance I think it is really worth practicing putting a dummy on the ground behind you, and then moving about. Stepping around the dummy, and gradually working on stepping further away from the dummy in different directions. Have the dog far enough away that he can't reach the dummy before you do if he breaks. And gradually build up the distance that you move away from the dummy. At the moment he thinks if you are not guarding the dummy you don't want it any more. He needs to learn that he cannot have the dummy, even if you are not 'guarding it'. Pick up the dummy and return to the dog with a generous reward at frequent intervals and when he is reliable, move him a bit nearer and start the process over again. You should be able to place a dummy(and eventually throw a dummy to land) right in front of your dog without him breaking from the stay whilst you walk away from him. But it takes practice with a dog that really wants that dummy badly.
