Re: Getting attention at a distance With my older Lab I could throw dummies all around him and at one training session a tennis ball even landed on his tail and he didn't move a muscle, I could throw them fast across him, over his head and he would remain steady, but the wretch still ran in to the dummy launcher :'( He is very high drive. My younger Lab is so much more biddable and easier!
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=heidrun link=topic=3548.msg39837#msg39837 date=1386363655] [quote author=charlie link=topic=3548.msg39758#msg39758 date=1386341880] [quote author=Jen link=topic=3548.msg39756#msg39756 date=1386341756] Well said Helen and I'm sure all your work will pay off. I agree with you about perfection. It would be wonderful but dogs will be dogs and that's why we love them. [/quote] It might be wonderful but oh soooo boring [/quote] Well, none of my dogs are perfect so no chance of dying of boredom here, thank God. Helen, you do misunderstand my point about taking dogs for walks. Never have I said dogs should not be off lead. I have been out with mine all day today and not once were they on a lead. That is a huge amount of freedom their training has given them. [/quote] I apologise if I misunderstood Heidrun, it appears I was not alone x
Re: Getting attention at a distance [quote author=Jen link=topic=3548.msg39328#msg39328 date=1386168051] Hi all Yesterday while having a go at a missing retrieve I realised that when my dogs are on a scent or looking for something or just entertaining themselves at a distance from me it's difficult to get their attention. I've read the watch me article and their attention on me when they are close is good particularly scout. Scott can sometimes be away with the fairies :. Any tips on how I can encourage more of their attention when they are at a distance. This is not a new problem but it's become very obvious now I'm working on stop whistle. It certainly won't help with that! Jen [/quote] Right, I have gone right back to the beginning of this thread to answer the question why I think that walking the dog can ruin its gundog training. Jen asks how to get her dogs' attention when they are out on a scent or entertaining themselves at distance. That's the whole point!!! A trained Gundog would not be out there at distance entertaining itself. That is called self hunting and everything I do is to train my dogs to hunt for ME! Hunting a dog means giving it your full attention and watching every move, that is not how most people walk their dogs though. Usually people allow their dogs to run and sniff where they want, to follow a scent if they like and to switch off to their owner and do their own thing. The complete opposite to what a gundog is asked to do. All training is about repetition and consistency. For my dogs it would be very inconsistent if I demanded control one day and then a complete change of rules the next day. I do realise that for most pet owners this would appear too restrictive, for me as an owner of four high drive working spaniels it is the only way to be. And I also believe it to be the best way to manage any equally high drive non working pet dog.
Re: Getting attention at a distance Heidrun, thank you very much, that is totally clear and understood and Charlie gets it too .
Re: Getting attention at a distance Thanks for explaining that Heidrun. My question though was not about getting my dogs attention when I've allowed them to go sniff, which I only do at the end of a training session, although that would be useful. My problem is getting their attention if their focus is distracted while we are training. Which I know is worse. For example that missing retrieve I tried I couldn't get scout to stop and look up at me which is the point of the exercise. He was too busy hunting around for the missing ball ! I don't walk my dogs off lead. When they are off lead we are training. They have improved a lot with their attention on me and focus on the job in hand especially since I started C&T . So any advice on increasing their focus on me would be greatly appreciated. Jen
Re: Getting attention at a distance Jen, I remember when I read your post about the 'missing retrieve' that I was going to comment but didn't get around to it. In my mind, you didn't set that exercise up properly. What your dog did is what I would expect from my dogs, to hunt for the ball. You do not want a dog to run to the spot, not find the retrieve and instantly look up to the handler for help. Your job as the handler is to send the dog into he right area and it is your dog's job to hold that area and hunt for the retrieve, preferably without your help. You can't use that sort of scenario repetitively to teach the stop whistle, it would create a big problem in the long run - a dog that no longer trusts its own nose and permanently looks for help from his handler.
Re: Getting attention at a distance Because I'm always trying to build Riley's confidence in me and himself I don't use that exercise for the reasons Heidrun explained. I also have to be careful because too many stop exercises in general mean that Riley starts to anticipate and begins to look round to see if I'm going to stop him. We do an alternative which is to either have an assistant or I position myself so that the dummy can be picked up if Riley doesn't stop. This means the dummy is really there and Riley knows it is as he can see it, he just isn't allowed to have it if he doesn't stop. When he does stop I throw another dummy for him as a reward. Sometimes he gets the original dummy but not always.
Re: Getting attention at a distance The missing retrieve is one of a whole sequence of exercises with which to add distance to you stop whistle. And as Heidrun says, like any stop whistle exercise, it cannot be practiced repetitively or you will end up creating other problems. It is an exercise for adding distance, not for teaching the dog to look at you when you blow the whistle. This needs to come first. It sounds as though your dog does not see the stop whistle yet, as a predictor of something good. Have you read this article? All dogs should know that the stop whistle is a predictor of a retrieve or some other fun thing, this is what makes them look instantly to you, when you blow it. The article in the link explains how to achieve this. Stop whistle training needs to follow a logical sequence [li]Conditioning the dog to expect something good from you after the whistle is blown[/li] [li]Teaching the dog that the whistle means sit[/li] [li]Teaching the dog that the whistle means sit even while he is moving[/li] [li]Teaching the dog that the whistle means sit even when he is not next to his handler[/li] [li]Teaching the dog that the whistle means sit even when he is a long way from the handler[/li] [li]Teaching the dog that the whistle means sit even when he is moving AND is not next to the handler. [/li] Each part of the chain is easiest for the dog to master, if the preceding part has been well established first All stop whistle exercises carry risks, things like sticky recalls, sticky outruns, popping and spinning, etc, because stopping the dog too often is always going to interfere with his flow and his self-confidence. So try to use each exercise sparingly and make sure you are ready for that exercise before you begin.
Re: Getting attention at a distance One of the ways we worked on making the stop whistle a precursor to something good or fun was to blow it before I sent Riley for a standard retrieve. It worked particularly well when he was sat facing me. I would blow the stop, then we he was looking at me for what came next I sent him back on a memory that we'd just set up. It also worked when we did our left and rights with the added benefit of working on our directional commands which will often follow a stop whistle. This meant he wasn't moving when he heard the stop but he was at a distance. Just what we did I'm sure there are other options too
Re: Getting attention at a distance Thank you very much for explaining. Stop whistle so far. My dogs know the whistle means sit and it is always followed by a treat or a retrieve my dogs know the whistle means sit while moving and are starting to know it means sit while I keep moving That's about it so far.. : I think I need to reinforce that the whistle means something good though before I move on. I think I will go back to whistle means sit and try and associate it with really good / fun. I'm sorry about all this. As I've mentioned before the stop whistle has always been something I've wanted to train but didn't believe possible so I need to get it right. Jen
