Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

Having looked at this quite carefully, I am going to put Charlie on supplements - talking to the vet about exactly which ones - but they are likely to contain glucosamine and chondroitin.

There isn't persuasive evidence they work, but it also might be a difficult thing to prove one way or the other.

Anyway, although it's a bit like buying expensive face cream (it would be such a bugger to find out in later years that it would have made a difference if only you had done it), Charlie will now go on joint supplements for the rest of his life.

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

[quote author=JulieT link=topic=4277.msg52676#msg52676 date=1391699531]
There isn't persuasive evidence they work, but it also might be a difficult thing to prove one way or the other.
[/quote]

Fair enough but if the vet recommends a drug why don't they write a prescription detailing the dosage instead of telling the owner to buy the human variety from one's local supermarket?

Roger

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

[quote author=Morwenstow link=topic=4277.msg52859#msg52859 date=1391790550]
[quote author=JulieT link=topic=4277.msg52676#msg52676 date=1391699531]
There isn't persuasive evidence they work, but it also might be a difficult thing to prove one way or the other.
[/quote]

Fair enough but if the vet recommends a drug why don't they write a prescription detailing the dosage instead of telling the owner to buy the human variety from one's local supermarket?

Roger
[/quote]

Umm...I don't know - maybe find another vet? My vet certainly hasn't done that, but is spending a lot of time discussing the options with me and will certainly prescribe the dose. It might be cheaper if he told me to go to the supermarket, but he hasn't.

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

If it's not a prescription drug then there's no need for a prescription. But you'd expect a dose rate

I myself would be keen on a well designed study too. It's tricky though - as Lochan said earlier, due to ethical reasons trials of new or previously untested substances involve a comparison between the new substance and the current gold standard. That means that any new drug has to be really good to demonstrate any therapeutic benefit over and above what may already be a high standard of treatment. It's a hard test to pass.

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

But are we not at the same stage as Linus Pauling, a double Nobel Prize winner, who said that large doses of Vitamin C cured both the common cold and cancer without proper research? What doctor now a days would prescribe Vitamin C for anything other than scurvy?

Roger

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

[quote author=Morwenstow link=topic=4277.msg52907#msg52907 date=1391804399]
But are we not at the same stage as Linus Pauling, a double Nobel Prize winner, who said that large doses of Vitamin C cured both the common cold and cancer without proper research? What doctor now a days would prescribe Vitamin C for anything other than scurvy?

Roger
[/quote]

I'm not sure why you would say that? None of the people I asked have said supplements will "cure" arthritis in Charlie's joint. They have said the evidence is not conclusive, and I might be wasting my money, but then again, I might not. That seems a long way from saying vitamin c cures cancer...

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

Perhaps what is needed here is a Cochrane review. Cochrane Reviews are systematic reviews of primary research in human health care and health policy, and are internationally recognised as the highest standard in evidence-based health care. They investigate the effects of interventions for prevention, treatment and rehabilitation. They also assess the accuracy of a diagnostic test for a given condition in a specific patient group and setting. They are published online in The Cochrane Library. In other words, they gather together published research on a subject and review it rather than conducting independant research themselves. They are occasionally done for animals, in fact there was a Cochrane review some years ago on drugs for the management of allergic skin disease in dogs. I am not aware that one has been done for glucosamine/chondroitin in dogs.
There are huge problems in veterinary medicine in simply asking a specialist if a drug works or not. In my own field of dermatology, I and almost all my peers who are specialist dermatologists will tell you that antihistamines are largely a waste of time and money in the management of atopy in the dogs we see. However, as specialists we see only the worst cases which are the most difficult to manage and hence never see dogs with relatively mild atopy who are put onto antihistamines by their first opinion vet and do very nicely thank you. So if as a profession we were to decline to use antihistamines in dogs then a cheap, effective and safe therapy would be lost for our pets. And yet it is not worth any drug company's money to attempt to licence their antihistamines for veterinary use with all the clinical trials etc that would entail as they will never get a significant financial return on their investment. So, if you ask a specialist orthopaedic surgeon if chondroitin/glucosamine works in dogs they will probably find it difficult to support from their own cases (by definition the worst) but benefit may be noted by owners or first opinion vets in similar circumstances. As Julie says, in an equivocal situation where there is no known adverse effect for giving a substance but there MAY be positive benefits do you risk not doing it?

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

I would not stop giving it to my dog and as he is nearly 8 years old and had arthritis in his elbow at 10 months due to fracture and screw and pins, as I said before, up to this moment he has shown no evidence of pain. The vet at a prestigious veterinary hospital prescribed Synoquin and I have used it ever since.

Wrote the above at the same time as Lochan's post.

 

Re: Glucosamine and chondroitin for joint health

Such an interesting point! Thank you