So on our walk yesterday a neighbor approached and wanted to pet Myles, I could feel Myles losing control (with eagerness) as neighbor approached. I tried to tell neighbor, "wait to pet him" but he would not listen. Hand fully extended, Myles lunging trying to get him (all just overly friendly puppy), me saying "don't pet him" hoping I can use this as a training moment. Nobody ever listens to me in this so he is constantly getting rewarded for acting like this, which has resulted I'm me avoiding people/dogs on our walks. I fear what this will/is doing to his socialization. 2 other people walk up with their adorable bulldog puppy, Myles is just going nuts at this point (thank goodness for harness). We just had to leave eventually. Sad because this was supposed to be addressed in Puppy School 2, which I had to cancel because of his extreme car anxiety. (Admittedly I have avoided dealing with the car thing as well, ugh so many things). Just don't know how to set him up for success in this. He's not a puller on our walks (was more of a lagger, which has improved tremendously). He's just so strong at I'm guessing nearly 45-50lbs (5 months), and I'm small. I should say I really tried socializing him well (but was late getting him at 11 weeks, then we had to go through 3 rounds of vaccinations). All that said, I took him on walks anyway and let people pet him. But reading through all of the ways people have socialized their pups, I feel we barely scratched the surface. Back to my point, curious how others having worked through the over eagerness in greeting others on lead walks. This will always be the norm around here (vs off lead). So must address this. Thank you in advance! I have found this forum so helpful in terms of quality advice, my compliments to so many of you. I'm afraid you will be hearing more from us. So here's a cute picture to convince you to keep us around :
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks On the upside, you sound to have a typical over friendly young Labrador, far too keen to meet other people and other dogs....so whatever socialisation you feel you didn't get done, does not seem to have done much harm. You are based in the US, aren't you? I don't know what facilities are like for you where you live, but can you find some socialisation classes for Myles? These are common in the UK, it's easy to find teenage socialisation classes where young dogs can be off lead (for a bit of the class) and owners can work on recall around other dogs, and dog can learn doggie manners and so on. Isn't it funny that people think they can do what they like with your dog? I find it very strange. I read Patricia McConnell's "the other end of the leash" and she says in the book that primates (inc humans) have an irresistible urge to say hello to others, including animals, by heading straight up to them and touching them. She gives some amusing anecdotes about how hard it is for humans to follow instructions not to approach a dog head on, not to reach out to a dog and so on. So, if you want to overcome this by people you haven't tutored in advance, you have to be pretty direct in order to avoid them doing it. If you are not prepared to be that rude, the only other alternative is to train your dog not to jump on people even when they approach him with hands out stretched, squeeking in high excited voices. : For this, you need helpers. You have to train for it with people that are capable of following your instructions. Step by step...
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10816.msg161096#msg161096 date=1430741787] Isn't it funny that people think they can do what they like with your dog? I find it very strange. [/quote] Try taking a guide dog or guide dog pup into a busy shopping centre! I get out my teacher's voice "I'm sorry, she's in training and learning to ignore you" usually does it. But some people are so rude. They will lunge at a working guide dog, even offer them food - of course the guide dog owner can't see what's happening - just that their 'eyes' are not working well any more! When you have a baby guide dog pup in your arms you feel like you are everybody's property. "I give to guide dogs" seems to make people think they have licence to stroke the pups any time any where. Luckily I'm a chatty, friendly person so I usually have a good chat and try to be a good ambassador for the charity, while at the same time firmly not letting the pup be distracted form her work.
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks Thank you Julie. Yes we are in Texas. There are several puppy socialization classes nearby, i was avoiding it because of the car issue :-\. Which I have just got to work on so that we are not so limited. So frustrating when people will not listen. I think probably as you said it will require me getting some friends to help and telling them exactly what to do. Random people we meet on our walks just want to pet the cute puppy. It's hard to explain to them that he if does not sit calm, they cannot pet him at all. But maybe I just need to be ok with being more direct. As far as socialization, I was really so worried. He was one of the "shy" ones in his litter. The breeder said she had to do one on one sessions with him to bring him out, but by 8 weeks he was good to go. I didn't really know this until after I got him at 11 weeks. So I wanted to make sure he loved people and dogs. I have seen absolutely no signs of hesitation to any person or dog. During his first 11 weeks with breeder he had plenty of time with kids as well. So I'm hoping all of this really helped. I do just worry with it being only him and I, and us being in the suburbs, that he just doesn't get to have enough practice in those situations where he needs to be calm around people and dogs. Again need to address the car issue so I can take him places. Today we walked during the hour when parents/kids were walking to school. We are on a paved sidewalk so when humans got close, I lead him to the grass, have him sit, "look at me", give chicken. Trying to start with rewarding him for not lunging. Side note: he is so aggressive when he takes treats! Ouch! Trying to say "easy" to get him to be gentle. But it's hard when you are in a high pressure situation and you need to treat fast. Hmm.
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks Don't beat yourself up about it, Erica. It is a problem many of us have to tackle. I live on the edge of a Market Town in the UK, but Molly spends most of her time out of the house on the lead. I have to take her through suburban areas to get to a place where I can let her off the lead and although I live in the country I still have to be careful where I let her off the lead, farmers are not too keen on dogs chasing their stock. I have struggled to train Molly to greet people nicely. Everyone who said "I don't mind" and allowed her to jump up delayed our training. I just really worked at the sit. Sometimes I would watch her bum tremble with the effort of keeping it on the ground. But recently she has greeted neighbourhood children and they have just loved being able to stroke her silky ears and give her treats. Dogs are another problem. She always wants to play. Again the sit has been very useful. Don't run away with the idea that it was a quick and easy fix it was a long hard slog but we got there. Just think of the extra time she spent with the breeder, as a good thing, she would have had the company of her siblings and her mum would have told her what was what. I got Molly at eight weeks, she started puppy classes at 12 and did a puppy romp for a few weeks after she finished the puppy classes.
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks When we were at puppy school we were told a good way to deter people from stroking our puppies when we had expressly said not to do so, was to say "I am afraid he has mange" and they would instantly back off
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks I think most if us have been here, it's very normal lab/puppy development. When Meg was going through this stage I really wanted to avoid the situation but I knew that would lead to more problems. So I took the bull big the horns and walked and walked and walked past/by/near people and dogs all the time. I would distract and reward with high value treats. I also took her without fail to training class where every week she had to do a whole load of quite simple exercises in front of different doggy and people distracting. The hard work payed off, she has a polite "meet and greet " now . She says a quick hello then off to sniff. She's a joy but we both worked hard to get there. For what it's worth I think you really would reap great rewards from going to class so perhaps work on the car anxiety as a priority as that will hinder all sorts of experiences. Don't loose heart we have all been there Emma and Meg age 14m
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks My Tess is 16 weeks now and just the same! We take her to town every week but that seems almost easier for her than walking near our house where you don't usually see anybody because when somebody does come along it's SO exciting. We were in town last week and a man made a beeline for us with his hand out, I asked him not to stroke her because she wasn't calm, he was understanding and we had a little chat, then his parting shot was to reach down and stroke her anyway!
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks His excited greeting of people *may* eventually pass as well. Maisie is a typical over-friendly, over-excitable labrador, but she stopped paying attention to most people on her walks and can play off lead in a park with other people around and not go up to them at this point. I really don't think it's much that I did even - she just settled a bit and realized not all humans are exciting or interesting. She will do a full body wiggle and excitement for those people she "knows" if she sees them on the street, and certain people do interest her, but she mostly just looks at them and wags if she's interested. If people want to pet her, she usually just sniffs their hand, then when they start petting her, does a bit of an excited run (a mini bum tuck) and returns to her sniffing, etc. She's just not interested in being petted on a walk! And this is a dog who used to yearn to greet every human. It can be hard to find your voice to say "don't touch him!" but I bet if you repeated yourself, really loudly, and went "I SAID *DON'T* TOUCH HIM!" they might look a bit shocked and back away. I don't know how friendly you are in Texas or how small your area is, if you want to risk semi-offending these people, but people are very dense about other people's dogs, you have to hold strong and stand up for yourself.
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks Thanks for the encouragement and reminder that this is typical lab puppy behavior. We did actually do 6 weeks of Puppy School 1 with a great facility here. He did very well in class under controlled distractions, but we really need Puppy School 2 as reinforcement. Zanacal, yes exactly. I think they do better when there are more people and dogs around vs just the 1 person that comes up on a walk. So exciting to see that 1 person! Edp thank uou for reminding me that just need to keep trying, rewarding, and working on the car anxiety. Maiseamomma, good to hear he may semi-grow out of it. Friendliness is a thing here in Texas and I try to be even friendlier in my own neighborhood. I will be direct If I have to though (ok starting now ) Will try try again!
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks I find people with kids the most amazing. Yesterday, a man said to his small child (about Charlie) "yes, go pat it, it's a Labrador" - I stopped, about 3m away and said "my dog is young and bouncy and not suitable for Children" he said "but it is a Labrador, right?". Right. : I felt like letting his kid find out what a 28kg ear lick feels like....;D ;D ;D But I didn't.
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks Oh Julie, yes… we had an awkward incident the other day when the father encouraged the child in a stroller to look at Maisie, saying "oh look at the pretty dog honey!" and so I let Maisie be within her sightline (held several feet away, not within arms reach or even within arms reach of the parent, and on a tight line so she could not approach at all, basically a safe distance). But then he goes "oh she's afraid of dogs" so I swiftly move us away and out of sight, but the child is already WAILING like crazy… I was like… maybe LEAD with that info so I keep her even farther away and we skip the crying bit!
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks We have 4 children aged between 2 and 9 and I childmind so Tess is around children a lot, but if I see another child she's on her lead and taking a wide birth, she could (and would!) knock them over in a flash of excitement to say hello! I hope it's ok to post this article here because it's relevant to the original post and something which I've been trying, rather unsuccessfully so far, to do. Thoughts on this anyone? I just can't figure out how to be more exciting than the treats!! http://www.wylanbriar.com/buying-a-pup/rethinking-socialisation-building-self-control/
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks I like and agree with most of the article - the two bits I don't agree with are a) the completely unrealistic expectation that anyone, anyone at all, that you are likely to meet out on a walk with your new puppy is likely to co-operate with you, especially other dog owners (see thread about keeping other dogs away from Charlie). And b) that treats are somehow "bad" in all of this and dogs are looking at the owner's hand because treats are used - used properly treats help hugely with self control exercises. But apart from those bits, yep, I agree with it.
Re: Greeting people and dogs on walks I can only agree with both a) and b) in my short experience as a Labrador owner!
I've really enjoyed reading all the comments, Myles sounds so like Mabel. Over the last couple of weeks I have told people that approach her that she is in training and she is not to be touched until she is calm. Challenging at first but as I've practiced my tone must have changed as I'm getting a much better response from people. I've also started using a clicker. It's working well. Mabel still bounces every where and wants to say hello to every single dog and person. I know we will get there in the end, Labradors are the best.
Pilatelover, good to hear you're making progress. I forgot I had posted this question and just posted my latest walking issue over in Labrador Behaviour. People and dogs are a real struggle for us! I hope some of it will improve with age. It's been very frustrating to just have no control in these situations.
When I take Sara for a walk, I let her go to people that want to pet her. This gives me time to ask them not to let her jump up. Most people are accomodating, especially if they are wearing clean clothes. If they say that's ok if she jumps up, I'll say whatever you like but I think she's stepped in something. Thy change their minds pretty quickly. It hasn't taken Sara that long to stop jumping up.
Ah yes Chrism......that's a good one.....or in my case......I would stay away she has just rolled in something stinky (best said with a wrinkled nose). I think I recall another member as using "mange" as a reason to keep away. Far more effective than a yellow collar
