Hi, thanks for reading. I have a 18month yellow lab. She's good in most things but walking on lead. I have a baby in a pram and another youngster so finding it difficult to also manage bouncy dog!! I've been working on her lead walking for over a year and, although she's much better, I still can't manage her and the kids together. A halti has been mentioned to me to help me keep her under control. Works a treat except Rosie HATES it. She won't walk a step, scrapes her face along the floor (she's damaged her skin). So she can't pull but walks still a nightmare. HELP! I'm stuck what to do. It's a shame as I walk miles and would love her to walk them with me but at the moment I have to walk her separately which I can't do easily. She misses out so much! Do I perservere with the halti even though she looks depressed and hides in her cage ??? If I get her out she so violently protests I can't manage her either and she's injuring herself. Will it improve if I keep at it???? Advice sooooo welcome as at wits end what to do for the best. X
Re: Halti hoohah! Is it actually a 'Halti' ? I'm asking this because there are lots of variations. I started with a halti which my dogs didn't mind too much but every so often would try and get it off. I decided it was because the nose band rode up. It also rubbed and Scott ended up with a bald patch under his eye. :-\ My friend used a Gentle Leader on her rottweillers which she said didn't move. I tried the Gentle Leader and Scott and Scout were much happier with it. They hardly ever rub at it. The difference is the nose band is at a fixed size. You adjust it to fit your dog and fix it with a clip. This means it doesn't move about like the halti as it doesn't slacken and tighten. Personally I would recommend the Gentle Leader over the Halti. However I now use a Gencon figure of eight. The only thing with this is it is a slip so will keep tightening. My dogs don't pull when walking so I haven't found it a problem. I've found the figure of eight to be more comfortable to use both for me and the dogs. The nose and neck bands tighten and slacken so if the dog is walking nicely it's slack. The lead attaches by the ear rather than under the chin so the nose band doesn't move even though it slackens. I've also found a figure of eight head collar based on a martingale collar. I've ordered one to try. The martingale collar means it can only tighten so far. I found it on www.allsorts4dogs.co.uk It's called a figure of eight combi collar. I use a head collar because I walk two strong Labradors who, although very good most of the time, if they pull I need to be able to hold. They are also nervous of strangers coming close to the so a head collar means I have more control of their head if they should react. Hope that helps a bit.
Re: Halti hoohah! Ah Jennyann,how are you doing?it's not fun is it?I had an exhuberhant puller ....My method of sorting it out wasn't a quick fix I'm afraid but Dexter doesn't pull now.... It got so bad I was coming home in tears....I gathered all Pippas articles together and started from scratch ,teaching a new cue instead of 'heel' .I was driving Dexter to off lead walks so he didn't have a chance to pull during this period and using a gentle leader head collar for the times I couldn't.he tolerated the head collar as he's quite a resilient chap but he didn't love it : I progressed to a front fastening harness ( a sensation harness) .....I clicker trained the loose lead Whatever I was using to walk him with.it was time consuming but we walk nicely on a flat collar now.When you have got a young family I think finding a piece of equipment that suits your dog and you for walks is vital,you can all get out together comfortably and safely but keep up the training,I think that's a good starting point for you but don't rely on your equipment alone Dexter is reactive to some dogs on lead and was lunging towards them and I've had to do a lot of work recently on this....I was a bit despondent because the trainer told me to put him back on his harness....it felt like a backward step to be honest for us when we'd come so far so I resisted.I wanted us to to look like everyone else : This is silliness on my part ,a harness is just another way to walk and a lot safer if your dog is prone to lunging......I compromised by putting his harness back on as a back up but still walking on his collar and asking the trainer to show me ways to get out of trouble so he didn't jerk his neck.....and we are making good progress ..... You aren't alone with this,many of us have struggled and I'm sure you will get plenty of advice and suggestions Best wishes Angela
Re: Halti hoohah! I did have a gentle lead but after hurting her face quite badly dragging across the ground I gave up with it after a few months of getting nowhere. She used to pull, flip and buck so much it used to get twisted all over the place. She's strong and v v determined to get it off. A friend suggested a dogmatic halti as she's had success with it with her Great Dane. Spent a few weeks getting her used to it (pairing it with high quality treats etc) but to no avail really. Just been out and we got nowhere. She scratched her face again dragging it across the pavement, and refused to walk so I just gave up. She pulls against it like a gazelle so I guess that's gotta be uncomfortable regardless of what make you buy...? I'm literally in despair about it all.
Re: Halti hoohah! Thankyou Dexter. It's hard isn't it! I do put many hours in but feel I'm getting nowhere fast tbh. She does walk nicely on the lead (only took about 18 months to achieve). But she's a lunger and can pull me over if she sees another dog. I can't have this while I'm pushing a pram with a small baby and another child. I just haven't enough arms to keep her (& us) safe. Hence halti being suggested again. I LOVE it because I feel confident I'm in control but she looks & acts totally broken. I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. 99% of the time I will be training her with the kids with me just to add.
Re: Halti hoohah! [quote author=jennyann link=topic=8483.msg119873#msg119873 date=1414337940] I've been working on her lead walking for over a year and, although she's much better, [/quote] Don't despair ....you've said she's much better so you've made progress and you can crack this ...how have you been approaching it ?do you use a clicker at all? X
Re: Halti hoohah! It doesn't help that she seems to be the biggest labrador I've ever seen and I'm a 5ft tall weakling.....! I dread to think what people must think when they see me out!!
Re: Halti hoohah! Thankyou again Dexter, Progress through puppy classes, clicker and just a million hours of banging my head against a brick wall....sorry I mean training walks! Lots of treats - usually high value ones. I'm running out of energy and motivation I think. She's so well trained off lead that I can't even lose her in the woods..only joking....! I think...!
Re: Halti hoohah! Sorry we crossed over a bit there.....she sounds very similar to my dog.....Dexter will walk very reliably with a loose lead on a normal collar and lead until we see another dog,cat ,chase opportunity.lack of experience ( he is our first dog ) on my part probably resulted in me being slower than I should have been getting onto this...I didn't really understand what was happening.It felt like it was escalating not getting better and I needed someone to look at us and see what I was doing and why it wasn't working.our lunging was part of a chain of behaviour though that started with a slow stalk .....so I'm not saying your situation is the same as mine, or that your dog is 'reactive' But something I've been taught might help you to get past a lunge ,(whatever the motivation is for that lunge ) especially when you've got a pram and a little 2 legged one with you.My trainer told me to teach Dexter a 'look at me' cue....so I could break the chain or even pre-empt it starting as I knew his triggers..... I did this with a clicker starting right back to basics .....in the house whenever he looked at me ,I did click&treat....you could do this without a clicker though...you've just got to be quite sharpish with the treat as initially you are rewarding the slightest eye contact.....use it at every opportunity ,if she's in a sit,make her look at you before she is released ,if she's in the car,make her look at you before she is allowed out....I'm quite evangelical about 'look at me' because it just tightened everything up for us .I didn't realise how little Dex and I actually did look at each other.....Out on the road when you get the lunge at the other dog ,'look at me' breaks the focus and you can get by without getting in a total mess. This is a really simplistic explanation,without knowing what else you've tried.....but it might help a bit ???
Re: Halti hoohah! Have you tried a front fastening harness jennyann? I haven't but as Angela (Dexter) has said it worked for her and I know a number of people on the forum have used them with great results. The lead attaches at the front on the chest rather than between the shoulder blades so the dog can't lunge the same or pull firwards as easily. If the dog pulls with a front fastening harness it sort of turns itself sideways if that makes sense. The only reason I haven't tried one is because of my dogs reactivity I like to be in control of their head. You can also get harnesses with front and top fastening so you can attach a doublt ended lead to both points giving more control. If you put harnesses in the search box at the top you will find lots of threads about them. The 'look at me' cue that Angela has explained is a very good cue to train and helps in all sorts of situations. PS. There are a few threads about harnesses in the products and supplies for dogs and products and supplies for puppies boards.
Re: Halti hoohah! This is a very timely post for me. My 10 mth old Lily is a puller/lunger and my gun dog trainer suggested using her slip lead to do the figure of 8 with it and actually she is really good on a walk using this. However, just lately she has started to scrape her face along the ground (though usually grass, not often pavement!) so she obviously does not like it if she is feeling a bit agitated (as she was today). I suspect the lead is too thick to go over her nose, although it is quite thin and silky soft. A dog behaviourist friend suggested a Dogmatic head collar and I have seen a figure of 8 lead in our local pet supplies shop which seems to be similar in principle to the Gencon one but not as high tech (i.e. doesn't have a buckle ;D). I am just not sure about which to try! There are so many, it is all a bit confusing... and expensive if she doesn't get on with it. I think comfort is key and a fleece-lined one appeals to me - also one which doesn't move about so as to cause rubbing on the bridge of the nose. Any tips or other suggestions? I love the look of the Fleur De Leadz ones as they are fleece-lined but they can't deliver until the new year!
Re: Halti hoohah! I think a front fastening harness might be the best - I really hate to see dogs look miserable in head collars, it doesn't seem right at all. I wonder, for people pushing buggies, whether one of those dog lead belts might help? Professional dog walkers use them, they fasten the lead to your waist. You'd have to make sure it suited you, your dog and your buggy etc. but any lunge would be lower and probably easier to cope with. The other advantage is it's a great way to train walking at heel - because you can't put any pressure on the lead, or mess about with it, all you can do is stop, walk forward and give treats for the right position (and you've got a hand for treats since you don't have a lead in it). Worth a thought, anyway...
Re: Halti hoohah! Hi amandamumma The problem with making a slip lead into a figure of eight is its not designed for the purpose so it's uncomfortable and will move. I've used a halti, gentle leader and gencon and I've found the gencon to be the best. It slackens and tightens if the dog pulls but unlike the halti the nose band doesn't move or ride up. My dogs don't bother with it at all. The lead attaching behind the ear is much more comfortable to use and less likely to twist the dogs neck if they pull/lunge. I also think the figure of eight is better when my dogs might react. I can shorten the lead without the headcollar tightening so the dogs don't get any signals that something might be about to happen. As I've mentioned I've ordered a combi collar from www.allsorts4dogs.co.uk I haven't received them yet so can't give an opinion but the reason I've decided to try them is because they are based on a martingale collar so can only tighten so far. The dog can also walk on either side of you. With the normal figure of eight once it's on the dog has to walk on that side. It is also lined with fleece.
Re: Halti hoohah! It is worth trying a Gencon, I tried all manner of head collars and the Gencon was the only one that didn't ride up into the dog's eyes and seemed comfortable. I don't need to use it now. I did, at one point used the hands free method with a belt round my waist but nearly killed myself; my husband appeared and my dog pulled suddenly toward him and I was pulled over, so that I fell backwards and crashed my head, I really though I had fractured my skull. I don't think you could cope with that and a pram and toddler!
Re: Halti hoohah! Hi jennyann, I just wanted to say I so share your frustration. My lab is 8 months and is a dream I every way except pulling. She is getting better with training training training but I share your anxiety about walking your dog with children. It's half term now and I could not bear the thought of trying to train/control Meg and my energetic boys. So I dusted off a very old halti I had many years ago. Meg had an awesome off lead run over the hills then tolerated the halti really well for the first time back to th village and sat well outside the pub. I don't think she would have been quite so accepting if she had not just had a monster run about. Does you dog get to run about as well as halti time ? Maybe that could help. Emma and steam train Meg
Re: Halti hoohah! Hi Jennyann Baby, toddler and dog. You certainly have your hands full and I'm full of admiration for you. I have used a Halti, Gencon, Gentle Leader and harness and for what it is worth this is my take on them. Gencon works quite well but she makes a strange snuffling noise on it. Halti also works but Holly hated and spent a lot of time trying to rub it off. Gentle Leader, she seems to accept better than the Halti, I think because it doesn't have the side straps. Harness I have less control as she is more able to put her weight into things. It is a back fastening harness, but there is a ring at the front and once I attached her lead to that. it worked well but I think it altered her gait and I wasn't happy about using it on a long term basis. I have reached a compromise. When I take her out and know that she will be off lead I leave home with the harness on and the Gentle Leader in my pocket.Iif she is prepared to walk nicely (relatively speaking) I leave it there, but if she is very pully I pop it on. When we get to the off lead area I take the Gentle Leader off and have the harness when I need to assume control. Like you I want my dog to enjoy her walks, but at 5 foot 2 inches I need all the help I can get. The key to it is obviously training. I persevere and persist but freely admit that I didn't expect it to last this long (Molly is 13 months). All those quiet dignified Labradors I used to see suckered me, I reckon there has been a cunning plot to hide all the nutty, exuberant, boisterous puppies until they grew up and calmed down. Labradors, you see intend to rule the world
Re: Halti hoohah! i have very similar problems to this my lab is now 17months and still pulls badly i use a gentle leader but only sometimeswhen i am going to the local park but i have had some success recently we always do a long walk in the woods where milly runs around lots if we walk 4miles she must run 4times that amount running around then when we get clost to the car park i practice on lead walking i use the word steady as she seems to take more notice of this and carry gravy bones and give her treats every few steps now she will walk nicely close to heel after trying for a few days you could try this if you can get time to take the dog out without the children you need lots of treats and i know how hard this is good luck
Re: Halti hoohah! We had trouble with Lola pulling and we were at a game fair/show where the Labrador Rescue had a stand - the chap noticed Lola pulling as we'd gone to look at the stall. He offered us a harness that he said would stop her pulling without causing any distress and said that if it didn't work we could bring it back and he'd refund the money. We bought it and fitted it and the transformation was frankly unbelievable. Even with all the distractions and interesting things at the show Lola wasn't able to pull and the day went from torture to pleasure. We didn't go back for the refund! The harness is called the Mikki WalkRite Anti Pull Harness and is about £9. It's a little bit of a so and so to put on - I always take it apart and start from scratch even though you can leave it fastened as I always get it tangled. It takes no longer than 1 minute though. The harness is clever in that when the dog pulls, the padded straps round the back of its front legs tighten making walking a bit strange - it doesn't hurt the dog but is obviously a funny sensation that stops them being able to pull. We've tried haltis before and our dogs hated them, this seems much nicer and less distressing for the dog. Obviously I can't guarantee it will work for all dogs but it really made a phenomenal improvement with Lola - we use it round towns and even when we're passing her favourite places (outdoor cafe areas where tasty crumbs lurk on the pavement) she is unable to drag us around. If there are any disadvantages they are that it is not as easy to put on as some other harnesses (but not too hard) and as it is round her body you can't pick her head up as easily as with a collar lead if she does find something tasty to snaffle.
Re: Halti hoohah! I'm glad you have found something your dog feels happier with. [quote author=gary217 link=topic=8483.msg121339#msg121339 date=1415037224] The harness is clever in that when the dog pulls, the padded straps round the back of its front legs tighten making walking a bit strange - it doesn't hurt the dog but is obviously a funny sensation that stops them being able to pull. We've tried haltis before and our dogs hated them, this seems much nicer and less distressing for the dog. [/quote] Hmmm...it's pretty odd that a "funny sensation" stops a persistent and determined puller though. If it's not a mechanical action, eg pulling the dog round, it seems likely it's an aversive. I'm doubtful that there is a magic sensation to stop a determined, strong, young labrador with an established pulling habit, unless temporarily through surprise - it which case, make the absolute most of it to train, train, train, before it wears off.
Re: Halti hoohah! I do have sympathy with you on this, in the past (with previous dogs) I've had to go walking with strollers and toddlers and a pulling dog. We eventually used the Halti, he didn't like it at first but did get used to it. But I understand your dismay if the dog doesn't ever settle with it, no one wants to see them miserable. Is there any opportunity to walk without the kids so you can practice heel walking without them? Then you would have the time to do the "stop and don't move until the lead is slack" technique or the "turn in opposite direction".
