Hi there I've just bought and read the Grade One training guide - with much enthusiasm - and had a question I wondered whether you lovely people could help with. When Pippa says only one command does this also apply to heel work? I assume yes with the sit marking start and end of exercise but what happens if you are heeling over a longer distance than a few yards should you remind the dog if his attention waivers or is that the point of drills working up from 3 steps to 5, 10, 20, yards and so on. Also do you guys do loose leash walking as distinct from heel work as I'd like to make these 2 distinct activities if I can, one where he can sniff and relax a bit and the other more focused on me if that makes sense. Really appreciate hearing your thoughts/tips and advice Many thanks in advance Lisa and Welly
Re: Heel work question It's been a few years since I did the Gundog Club field tests but I seem to remember that you only give the heel cue once as you set off walking. If you have to repeat it on the way you will lose points. So every time you say heel again you will lose one point.
Re: Heel work question For what it's worth... it's the same in competition obedience. Once cue only and any more loses points. I do (a) 'heel' which is a strict stay by my left at all times and sit automatically (without a cue) when I stop and (b) 'walking' which is just walking casually on a loose lead, on the right or left, with sniffing allowed. My dog has no trouble distinguishing between these two
Re: Heel work question Yes, in the exercises at class for grade one, you give one cue and walk the distance. Turn round at the pole and sit the dog. Since you are only allowed to give one command (and one reminder) for the stay, I have Charlie sit without a verbal cue when I stop, then I can give my wait cue to walk away (leaving me with one reminder in the bag if I think I need it, which you are allowed to give from the line). The walk for Grade one needs to be a heel, not a loose lead. I distinguish loose lead for Charlie by verbal cues (go sniff and close), the way I hold the lead, and recently (to reinforce the difference as I was doubting that he had got it) I've actually been swapping from a flat collar for go sniff to a limited slip lead for close. Which has really helped him see the difference.
Re: Heel work question I know this is veering off the original post a bit, but I think it's really interesting that competition/award stuff is still measured on verbal cues - both handlers and officials must be aware that you can just teach body language cues for anything where the dog can actually see you! I'm pretty much dispensing with verbal cues altogether at the moment - 'close heel' is indicated my hand on my left pocket, for 'stay'/ 'wait' I put a flat hand in front of the dog's face briefly, then if I'm walking away I keep my arms folded, 'come' is arms out to the sides, 'fetch' is a hand movement forwards etc etc. I realised that the handlers I most like watching are the really quiet ones and decided to cut out the verbal stuff altogether if I could. My dog seems to find it clearer too, and it means she has to keep watching me to find out 'what's next'.
Re: Heel work question I use "Close" when I want Molly to walk by my side. I use the same word whether she is on the lead or off. She is pretty good at keep station my now when she is on the lead, so every now and then I drop in a "Close" and slip her a bit of kibble. "Walk on" means she can go to the end of the lead for a sniff etc. I have trained hand signal for all the commands I have taught Molly, they are a useful reinforcer while training and I use them on their own just to keep them current. My signal for "Close" is a finger on my right hip.
Re: Heel work question I know this thread is about gundog work not obedience, but, in obedience trialling, tests are non-verbal (hand signals only) at advanced levels. Dogs are way more tuned in to visual cues, compared to verbal cues. It is good to have both though, as one day a dog may go blind or deaf - having both types of cue gives you more room to move.
Re: Heel work question [quote author=Merla link=topic=9899.msg143727#msg143727 date=1423990435] I know this is veering off the original post a bit, but I think it's really interesting that competition/award stuff is still measured on verbal cues - both handlers and officials must be aware that you can just teach body language cues for anything where the dog can actually see you! I'm pretty much dispensing with verbal cues altogether at the moment - 'close heel' is indicated my hand on my left pocket, for 'stay'/ 'wait' I put a flat hand in front of the dog's face briefly, then if I'm walking away I keep my arms folded, 'come' is arms out to the sides, 'fetch' is a hand movement forwards etc etc. I realised that the handlers I most like watching are the really quiet ones and decided to cut out the verbal stuff altogether if I could. My dog seems to find it clearer too, and it means she has to keep watching me to find out 'what's next'. [/quote] Every gundog handler will have hand signals or use body language as cues. The problem though is you can't use a continuous signal like folding your arms or holding a hand up or down or by your side because in gundog work the handler is busy doing other things like shooting or dealing with game or climbing over a fence or swishing a flag or a million other things so its best to just give a cue once but not to rely on some form of continuous cue.
Re: Heel work question Ah, good point Although the chances of me EVER wielding a gun while responsible for this particular dog are, err, slight ;D ;D I've done the fence thing though- send her over and stop her on whistle/ hand signal and then pick her up in the other side (or leave her in a sit and then call her over, depending). Agreed, it's best not to reply completely on body language, but I would say I think it's our primary form of communication.
Re: Heel work question [quote author=Merla link=topic=9899.msg143750#msg143750 date=1423993853] Ah, good point Although the chances of me EVER wielding a gun while responsible for this particular dog are, err, slight ;D ;D [/quote] I have a strong feeling that Charlie and loaded guns are best kept a fair way apart. ;D ;D ;D I think the obedience stuff is very relevant. My gundog trainer answered my question about when I was going to give Charlie's visual "now give that to me" cue by saying what she would have done in obedience without any verbal cues. I do think that if you have a verbal and a visual fetch cue, the visual cue is stronger (that's why dogs break as handlers extend their arms).
