Hi, Well, were to start!! I am new to the site and desperately looking for advise. My labrador Bonnie had 7 puppies on 31st August. All was going really well, she was a fantastic mum! However when the puppies were two weeks old she had a fit, we rushed her down to our emergency vet fearing pre-eclampsia - but all of the blood tests came back normal. Vet thought it might have been stress of puppies or a very recent change of food so advised us to monitor her. We changed the food back to what she was on (we only changed it as I was worried she was starting to look skinny - but during consultation with vet she said Bonnie was a good weight and looked in fantastic condition considering she'd had 7 puppies) and everything settled down. But over the weekend Bonnie had 2 fits in a 12 hour period - absolutely terrifying. Took her back to the vet who again advised that it could be the stress of the pups - to let Bonnie do every other feed for a few days then to completely stop her from feeding them. We came home, she fed the pups and had another fit. Contacted Vet who advised to stop her from feeding pups completely, and if she were to have more then she would have to go on medication as possible epilepsy. Well, the good news is since that episode Bonnie has had no further fits, she seems so much more settled and is not even that worried that she is no longer with her pups (although the pups are taking a bit longer to get used to this arrangement :'() We had already started to wean the pups last week and they took to the food (field & trial complete mashed soaked with wepli and weetabix) very well and they are lapping water/welpi. But - I have taken the place of mum and I am very 'over-anxious'. I have asked my vet how much I should be feeding them, should I continue with the welpi, etc - but was really left in the lurch when she advised that she really didn't know!! They all seem to be thriving, but I need to get this right! They are sleeping about 5 hours in between feeds and I am alternating the field and trial with the weetabix - but they all seem to have quite sloppy stools - 1 puppy even had red blood, but was advised this could be worms (vet had ran out of wormer last week!) so we are in the process of worming them with panacur - they had their first dose yesterday, but it seems to have really upset their tummies! And they have 2 more doses to go, today and tomorrow :/ So - any advise of what I should/shouldn't be doing would be so very gratefully received. I am so worried about the blood in the poop too, could this be more than worms?? But as I've said they are all eating and drinking and playing, shiny coats, bright eyes, etc. I have sort of lost faith in my vet, and considering a change (although they have always been fab in the past) but it could just be that I am the one who is over reacting - the last few weeks have been a nightmare and I feel I am on my last nerve : Sorry for the long post and thank you for reading x
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies I'm really sorry your girl is unwell and you're faced with this challenge I'm afraid I've never raised puppies so can't help specifically but wondered if you knew any breeders who might be able to make some suggestions. They are most likely to have had to deal with this sort of thing. There are people on the forum who've bred so hopefully they'll have some advice. Lots of luck!
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies My first advice would be to ditch the weetabix. It is may well be upsetting the pup's tummies. Pick a good brand of commercial puppy kibble and stick to it. The milk substitute can be gradually phased out until at six weeks they are completely weaned. Blood in poop is never a good sign - does your vet know about this? If not do tell him. Panacur paste is a very gentle wormer and does not usually upset tummies. And they do need to be wormed. But again, talk to your vet about whether you should try a different wormer in the light of the upset tums and bearing in mind that it may be nothing to do with the panacur.
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies I've hand reared puppies and kittens in my time in rescue. First off, as Pippa said, lay off the weetabix. They don't need this. I often found that my puppies would get runny poo if the welpi wasn't made right - too much formula to not enough water seems to make it too strong for their systems to manage, so make sure you are measuring exactly, or cut down very slightly the amount of formula you put in. When I've been weaning puppies I would often leave a bowl of kibble to soak overnight in hot water ready for meals the next day - this would give the kibble a soft 'squishy' consistency and it can then be mashed into the welpi to make a paste, though they should be able to eat the odd small bit of softened kibble. Over the next few weeks you need to soak the kibble less and less, and decrease the amount of welpi you mix it with. The blood in the faeces would concern me and as long as the pups are bright and feeding well the first thing to do is get them wormed - the general advice is to worm them every two weeks until 8 weeks old. So now at age 4 weeks, then 6 weeks and again before they go to new homes at 8 weeks.
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies I cant add to the good advice , but just to wish you lots of luck
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies Thank you so much for your kind advise! I had spoken with the vet and phoned and spoke to a different vet in the practise again today - as the pups are all eating, drinking and playing he is not too concerned - he said it quite possibly could be to do with worming, or even stress of being physically separated from mom all of a sudden or a sudden halt in their moms milk ... they've just had they're second dose of panacur, last day tomorrow - so just hoping will see some change in their stools! However, if we see any change in them i.e lethargic, vomiting then to arrange to see them. Even though they all look 'well', I am feeling so stressed over this :'( Think the lack of sleep is making me a bit over reactive too I am currently mixing the welpi 20mls water to 1 spoon (supplied) ... but I am giving them welpi with every meal - perhaps this is too much? I was giving them 2 meals kibble - 3 meals weetabix - but will put a stop to the weetabix straight away as advised and soak the kibble with water (which is what it says to do on the packaging, but thought we'd soak it with the welpi). So ... 5 meals kibble a day, with a further soak of welpi -should I then give them welpi just as a drink between meals - although they are very good at drinking water (with the occasional foot/tail dip ???) I might try diluting the welpi a little too, when adding to the kibble? arghhhhhhhh The advise on the kibble is huge 80g to 185g for a pup, per day. I am worried about underfeeding them, but also overfeeding. They are certainly FULL of energy, they have just spent a mad 30 minutes around the kitchen (an area they are not normally allowed) and now fast asleep. I know that from previous experience with their mom that she does get a terrible tummy after worming for a day or two. She seems full of energy today too - even bought me a lovely gift of a piece of cardboard ... perhaps that is her way of saying thank you I needed a break? I hope so Just read the above, I sound so confused lol But hopefully you will understand? I will certainly keep you updated, although I am at work over the next couple of days - hubby will be in charge I am looking forward to my 12 hour shifts, need a break from home lol
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies That's good that you've spoken to the vet again. It is worrying when we have to take over for the mum, fortunately I only had to do it for a little while. It's probably not very helpful at all but my meal plan for the pups I had was something like this: Each meal consisted of roughly two large handfuls of kibble per puppy, mashed up with some made-up welpi. If you're feeding them all from the same bowl add a couple extra handfuls of kibble for good measure. If feeding from seperate bowls the rescue's behaviourist says always to make up one bowl per puppy plus one or two extras. Fresh water available at all times - if they're happy to drink water there's no need to supplement additionally with welpi other than what you are mixing into their meals.
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies Hi, Just to update you ... Puppies have now been wormed, think this was part of the bigger problem, had several poops which confirmed they had worms (sorry) but since then - no more blood. Which is such a relief! Have completely stopped with the weetabix. Whilst I was at work hubby wasn't too sure (despite very specific instructions) about the welpi mix - so he mixed wet food with their soaked kibble (wet food was bought and used to encourage them eat their wormer) and they loved it. So they had no welpi at all. Their stools firmed and they all seemed far more settled Last night I mixed welpi in their food when I got back from work (diluted the mix as suggested) - woke up to a room full of sloppy poops - so have gone to wet food/soaked kibble this morning, and it has all firmed up again. So I think it may have been the welpi - looks that way? So the big question is - will they be getting all the nutrients, etc they need from the wet food/kibble? Or should I supplement the welpi with something else? They are all drinking their water really well. They are now 5 weeks and 1 day old. Many Thanks x
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies Sorry I don't know anything about weaning pups, but glad to hear they are doing better now. Good luck
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies That's great to hear that they are doing well! I would say it probably depends on the type of wet puppy food you are using - you can buy wet food that is specially for weaning and puppies of that age. General puppy meat you buy in a regular shop is usually geared at 8weeks plus. However, if they are doing well and seem healthy and happy then I don't see a problem with it. Perhaps you could sprinkling a scoop or two of welpi powder onto the wet food and mixing it in? That might help them to get the extra nutrient boost if you're worried.
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies Oh I'm coming onto this late...but I wouldn't have been any help at all as we have a 2 year old boy who is out first dog. I'm so glad that the puppies are doing well?How is their Mum,has the vet said they will investigate the fits...she has certainly improved though after not having the demands of the puppies. You are doing marvelously ...are you keeping any of the pups ?Sorry,I've come on with more questions than I've been able to answer. Glad you've got some great advice from the other Members and Pippa ,keep up the good work x
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies Again, Thank you all so much for your help and advise I cannot believe that the pups are now nearly 7 weeks old!! They are all certainly a very healthy,lively and playful bunch We have decided to keep one of the puppies, but a family debate as to which one to keep - we all seem to have our own special bonds with a different pup - so it will be a very hard task! Mum was doing really well - but sadly had another fit a couple of days ago. She fits for a minute (although it seems an eternity at the time) and then snaps out of it and goes on the hunt for food? Vet (senior vet at the practise this time) has advised us to monitor her fits and keep a diary before any decision is made about putting her on meds. There was me worried about her weight - but when we took her to the vet on Wednesday I was told she needs to go on a diet - poor girl ... she is not taking it well. I have tried to upload a photo of the mum and pups as an avatar, but file says file is too large - so apologies as I would have loved to have been able to show them to you x
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies Oh I'd love to see them,you can get a photo into your post by using a host site like flickr or photbucket ( I can see you rolling your eyes at me with all you've got going on at the moment )..... You've done marvelously ,I don't envy you choosing a puppy,it's hard enough but must be so much harder when it's your own litter x
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies So glad to hear they are doing well, and hopefully mum will forgive you the diet! Sounds like the vet is taking a sensible measured approach to her treatment. Good luck all round
Re: Help & Advise please - completenweaning of 4 week old puppies So glad to hear that things have gone well, even if your bitch has had another fit. The puppies sound great! How many of them are there, and we would love to see photos!
