Re: Help with socialising Session no. 2 went a lot better! I arrived early to walk Luka round the area, woods and lots to sniff. A few other dogs and owners were also there and Luka was interested in them but not a pulling, gasping mess like last week! Once we started Lukas nose was pinned to the ground sniffing all the other dogs scent! He did well to sit, lie down, sit and not move when other dogs were walked nearby. Again this week I noticed him giving me more eye contact. It's like he is looking at me for reassurance. He is still anxious panting a lot at times then has periods where he is calmer. We still have a long way to go but having good results already. He again slept the 45min drive home!
Re: Help with socialising I am pleased it went so well for you. Pat on the back for you for persisting. When you have a bouncy dog (i do) it is very tempting to avoid the embarrassment of an encounter with other dogs. i decided that if I went down that route we would always have problems so I just kept going. Sometimes I make her sit whilst the other dog goes past, other times we just walk past. I find she reacts differently to different dogs. The main point is that we are improving.
Re: Help with socialising Laura, that is sounding very promising, do keep up with the lessons and I think not just Luka will benefit - you may find yourself with a whole new circle of friends!
Re: Help with socialising Sounds great!! Was a good idea to get there early too. I'm sure you will see improvement after improvement
Re: Help with socialising You are right Karen there are a lot of people there and not being French it is a good opportunity to meet people with an obvious common interest-dogs! I was so pleased to see Luka calmer around the other dogs. There are others there with not so perfect dogs so it is a good experience to be in a controlled situation for all of us to learn from. I wish I had found this place sooner but I did try, anyway I found it and things are looking better, go Luka!
Re: Help with socialising I am so pleased i read this post. If have a similar problem with my 8-month old dog who goes into a near frenzy at the sight of another dog. As a consequence i have tended to avoid encounters but i realise that this is most definately not the way to address the problem. I had him at the Vet's this week and had to take him outside as he was totally out of control (pretty embarassing really as the place was busy). My dog also wants to jump all over us and any stranger who comes close. I am working on this and i reward him when he reduces interest. This area is definately improving. I have today found a place nearby where he can be trained with other dogs and hopefully become more social. He is absolutely fantastic in all other ways and is so intellegent, and this would really be a massive step forward. IMHO this forum is by far the best place to look for advice.
Re: Help with socialising Hi David, keep up the good work and do post some photos of your boy. What's his name?
Re: Help with socialising Oh my word, he looks so similar to my Snowie! I'd post a picture if I knew how, but all I get when clicking the Image icon are HTML image tags inserted, no opening of a window to select an image. What a beautiful boy!
Re: Help with socialising Tres beau, looks very much like my Luka. We have had 3 sessions at the Canine club and it is helping. The instructor used a pronged collar on Luka last week as he had been pulling hard and not good to do with a normal choke chain, bad for his throat. I had read about them and so agreed to try it during the session. It had a remarkable effect, he stopped pulling, gave me lots of eye contact looking to me to where we were going and in general was easy to walk with. He did not resist it and did not seem to mind it at all. The instructor says to use it during the course and see how we go as Luka is so big and strong. I am amazed after all these months of pulling and being difficult to control in public!
Re: Help with socialising [quote author=Laura link=topic=8385.msg129540#msg129540 date=1418239942] Tres beau, looks very much like my Luka. We have had 3 sessions at the Canine club and it is helping. The instructor used a pronged collar on Luka last week as he had been pulling hard and not good to do with a normal choke chain, bad for his throat. I had read about them and so agreed to try it during the session. It had a remarkable effect, he stopped pulling, gave me lots of eye contact looking to me to where we were going and in general was easy to walk with. He did not resist it and did not seem to mind it at all. The instructor says to use it during the course and see how we go as Luka is so big and strong. I am amazed after all these months of pulling and being difficult to control in public! [/quote] Oh Laura, I am sure you wouldn't go very far either if you had a prong collar wrapped around your neck. It is a vicious piece of equipment, and to be honest, I think if that is how your Trainer gets good results you might want to look at other classes. Honestly, this is one of the worst negative training methods you could use :'( What other techniques have you used to stop pulling? There are loads of alternative ways without resorting to prong collars. This forum is very much against negative training methods. Please think very very carefully about this. jac
Re: Help with socialising I have used head collars, easy walk front leading harness and still pulls. I am not into negative nasty things at all but was open to try it as when he pulls so hard on a slip choke chain I am worried about his throat. If I can get him to be calmer during a regular choke chain then great. At home I have noticed a change in him on our walks just using choke chain, he isn't pulling as much and looking at me more. Maybe the pronged collar was a wake up call for him. It's only been used once.
Re: Help with socialising [quote author=Laura link=topic=8385.msg129540#msg129540 date=1418239942] The instructor used a pronged collar on Luka last week ... It had a remarkable effect, he stopped pulling, gave me lots of eye contact looking to me to where we were going and in general was easy to walk with. He did not resist it and did not seem to mind it at all. [/quote] A prong collar is a strong punishment to use on a dog that pulls. It hurts them. There is no way that Luka didn't mind it at all. Unless the collar imposed a punishment on Luka, he would not have stopped pulling - that's just the way it is. And the presence of the collar is a sort of "threat" that if Luka pulls again, he will be hurt again. That has an impact on the dog and on your relationship with the dog. That is not to say that they are not effective - they are likely to be effective in correcting behaviour. But you do have to weigh up the pros and cons of using such devices with your eyes open. They are not magic, they stop pulling because a strong punishment is imposed for pulling. There are many, many disadvantages in training this way. You can read about them here: http://totallydogtraining.com/the-downside-of-punishing-dogs/ You can try to correct this behaviour through positive training - it takes a long time and a lot of effort and there is some merit to using a front fastening harness to help you while you train (you do have to do a fair bit of training for this to help you, it doesn't work without). In the long run, although you do need to put a lot more effort in, I personally think the benefits of training positively - benefits for your dog and your relationship with your dog - are well worth it. A choke chain is also a punishment for a dog (and I would no more use one than a prong collar) and one that, very unfortunately, it seems like Luka has got used to putting up with on a regular basis. Are you interested in trying to train walking properly using positive training? Many of us have done it, and you'll find much support and encouragement, and lots of experienced help, on the forum if you do.
Re: Help with socialising Actually I did not use a choke chain on Luka until he was about a year old, he has not been in one his whole life. I used a normal harness on him but as he got bigger and stronger and our training at heel wasn't solid I needed to find another way to help.i used a canny collar and he hated it. He would paw at it, climb up my leg fighting it so I got rid of it. Vet suggested the choke chain to see if it would help. Yes and no is the answer. Used it a bit but put it away and got an easy walk harness which we use everyday but it too us not pull proof with Luka. I am not saying I am for pronged collars I said I let it be tried. We have been out walking since the last session using our front harness and as I said earlier he is looking and watching me more and the heel command is working better. Luka and I have a solid relationship and trust. That will not change.
Re: Help with socialising I'm very glad to hear you have some success on an easy walk harness - hugely preferable to a choke chain, and much more supportive of your excellent relationship with Luka. Do you use a clicker? Training an off lead heel with a clicker can speed up on lead walking at heel no end...happy to point you to the instructions if you think it might be something you'd like to try.
