I would like some thoughts shared with me concerning training a 8 month Lab puppy.....Cooper went to puppy class and then we did family manners class which is basic obedience and he did very well. This summer we started dock diving - which he loves. My problem is he gets soooo excited when we are there that all training is out the door! They say that's ok, they want happy, energetic, excited puppies......this is all about fun. That's great but we have know gone to 2 little meets and he is "out of control" while waiting for his turn. Pulling, barking, whining.......then great jumps. I know...my fault....let's get back into a obedience class and get him refocused. I asked for references for our area (before we drove way across town & I wanted to find someone closer). Got a name, made and appointment for a private lesson. She came highly recommended, especially for working with labs and has been doing this for years. I was told she is older - no big deal, more experience. We went to our first lesson and she immediately put a "pinch collar" on him. I am not sure how I feel about using one. She also brought a 3 year old lab into class to see the interaction. Well Cooper started whining, barking, getting excited so she used a empty water bottle w/pennies and shook it. Then when he did it again, she popped he on the head with the bottle. She said it is his "hormones" because I have not had him neutered (but I will just not ready). She did know her stuff but it seemed pretty harsh and old school. I guess my question is, is using a pinch collar really necessary? I use a harness and yes he pulls when excited....not sure if I should follow her style of training or just work on butts off with the harness? please give me some thoughts...suggestions. Cooper is big boy - 8 mos. 81lbs. 26"
I am no expert and fairly new to this, these are only my thoughts. Take them as you wish. I am sure more qualified people will come along soon. Dock diving looks great, but I think 8months might still be a tad to young. Dont know the heights etc. but from what I have seen it has a big impact on their bodies. Given that they are still growing might not be the best. I think most sports dont allow dogs to train/participate until after 12months and even then later. Water bottle and pinch collar. I don't see the need for these. Like you said it is old school. Yes results might be very instant, but it makes a dog potentially fearfull and could cause problems later in life. Plus I think it impacts the relationship. If you are questioning yourself already regarding the collar, then go with your instinct and don't use it. It might take longer to get there but the results are well worth it. Can you get a tug toy or something to keep him focused on you while you wait for his turn? More engagement between the two off you, plus he will see you as more fun than anything else. Neutering has nothing to do with it. Yes hormones come into it, but those are the teenage hormones nothing to with being Neutered (from my understanding and reading). Vanilla is now 16months and it has taken us a while to get a settled girl around distractions etc. We took her to Field trials earlier in the year and Vanilla was 13months and I know any new environment she needs time to settle. So I get there early. We had discussions about old versus new training, that in itself is interesting. Basically we in the end havibg the youngest girl there not spayed was as calm as a cucumber and the best during the fetch, heel and recall. All this I managed to achieve through C&T and reading her to know what she is thinking. She will work things out, but at times looks for guidance. Hope some of this helps
Yes.....I was second guessing myself. When people tell you how great someone is, lots of knowledge, wonderful results, etc. I don't want to be disrespectful. I do think she is good but just not what I am comfortable with. I have been lazy on my training so it is my responsibility to step it up. You helped me see this more clearly.....Thank you! As far as the dock diving......we are limiting him to the # of jumps as well as time spent because of his age. Our focus is on what he will be able to do next year....if he still wants to. They also do retrieve jumps, which is how high they can jump to retrieve their bumper over water. This is not even allowed unless they are 2 years old. We want to make sure we keep this fun and something he wants to do. The lady that has worked with him is very protective of young dogs. She is very aware of injury and burnout that can happen to a young dog. She keeps telling us that she is not going to let us overdo it with him because he has a good strong drive for dock diving and we want to make sure we keep him healthy. Thank you too for the concern. Sven again Thank you....it did help more than you know!
The trainer sounds horrible! There is no need at all to use a pinch collar or for anyone to hit a dog. As for the rattle bottle idea that's just daft - it only works if it frightens the dog (and who wants to frighten their dog??) Clearly it didn't frighten your dog which is why it didn't work and the awful trainer decided to hit him. If your dog is whining, barking or jumping around they are either anxious or (in Cooper's case with the dock diving) over-excited. I would suggest keeping him much further back from the action until it is his turn and diverting his energy by walking him around. He's at a very excitable age and the best thing I did with Molly at this age was to spend time playing with her - tug mostly - so that I became the focus of attention, the centre of all fun-filled activity. Dock-diving looks like great fun, but I wonder if it might be best left for 6 months while you concentrate on getting Cooper focused on having fun with you. Whatever you decide about the dock-diving, ditch the old-school trainer!
I wouldn't want this "trainer" any where near my dog let alone be allowed to train it. Pinch or prong collars and choke collars/chains are all aversive tools which inflict pain on the dog to try and stop them doing something. These tools can cause serious damage to the dogs throat. If a dog wants to do something or get to something enough they will pull through the pain of these collars to achieve it. A plastic bottle filled with coins/pebbles is an aversive used to try and scare/frighten the dog to stop doing something. They can work, yes aversive tools can and do work, but can have nasty repercussions through noise association when you least expect it. And for a "trainer" to hit a dog with a filled plastic bottle leaves me speechless. Sorry this person is not a dog trainer and it sounds as if everything they do runs contrary to modern approaches based upon the science of how dogs learn.
Trainer GONE! Thank you everyone.....why I was second guessing I have no idea! I'm a better dog Mom than that. Back to my positive "only" training.
It's completely normal, when presented with someone with experience and expertise, to seek opinions if you're not quite sure about them. Your instincts were right and you came to the right place for advice, so good on you. And good luck with your training here onwards.
