Re: Hip Dysplasia We give Obi fish oil daily based on similar reasoning. When Obi was about 10 months he had a series of Pentosan injections (it wasn't Pentosan though, it was the next generation thing but I can't remember the name) as a cartilage booster and preventative. Our vet said that a lot of US vets are doing this with larger breeds and also that it's standard practice for Guide Dogs at about the age of 5 to extend their working lives. Keeping weight off is the key thing, though, I think.
Re: Hip Dysplasia My Dad had acupuncture for his arthritis as a result of a programme we saw where they were treating a dogs arthritis with it. I think Barley might have had acupuncture, has anyone else tried it for dogs with arthritis? If so what did you think?
Re: Hip Dysplasia The tradegy is that as owners of Labrador dogs originally bred to take hard exercise, but as a result of irresponsible breeding we have produced an animal that has major skeletal imperfections. Medical and surgical interventions will improve the situation but they will not resolve the problem. I am convinced that the answer lies in veterinary research and as such Benson and I are part of a project which is trying to identify the cause of Labrador dysplasia. Once that is known I feel sure the defective gene can either be bred out or a new strain introduced and the problem resolved. In the meantime drug therapy and surgery are all we have which are of course better than nothing but a poor answer for an animal that is not a lap dog, has a limited lifespan and designed for a particular role in life, involving hard physical exercise. Roger
Re: Hip Dysplasia I think it might be worth pointing out that most Labradors go through life without a problem. They are not all suffering I don't mean to diminish the incredibly stressful experience of having joint issues with your dog - not at all. But I hope that people are not turned away from the breed because they think that they are riddled with problems....I don't think that is the case Of course, testing of all breeding dogs is essential and I also think that there should be restrictions on breeding from registered dogs with hip and elbow scores above certain thresholds. Labradors are often used in research that is focused on inherited disease just because they are a common breed (and because they are used for a range of 'professional' applications), not because they are particularly 'up the creek' as a breed
Re: Hip Dysplasia [quote author=Oberon link=topic=3890.msg50889#msg50889 date=1391034563] I think it might be worth pointing out that most Labradors go through life without a problem. ... not because they are particularly 'up the creek' as a breed [/quote] This must be true - but, gosh, it's hard to believe if there is a problem with your dog. Charlie has brill elbows and hips - but I still have (possibly, or even probably) an inherited problem with ligaments - as I now know is not at all unusual in Labradors. And I'm left scratching my head. I took every care to check the breeder etc. (and none of his immediate ancestors have a problem - yet, anyway). None of the vast number of professional advisors I have will say if only I had fed X instead of Y, or blah, blah, that would have made a difference. So, do I put it down to bad luck, or wonder whether I will get another pedigree dog? Even loving labs as I do...once is definitely enough. So it's not just the likelihood - which in statistical terms may be small - it's also the impact, if a problem emerges.
Re: Hip Dysplasia Absolutely, the impact for the people and dog involved is huge. I think you were just unlucky with Charlie.... We have had discussions with our vet about this (as our health insurance company has excluded Obi's rear legs, knees, hips etc from their coverage for his first year because he had a preventative joint treatment before we took out our insurance, despite no clinical problems....anyhoo!!). Our vet said that it was 'almost unheard of' for Labradors to have a cruciate ligament problem in their first year. He did his vet training in the UK.
Re: Hip Dysplasia [quote author=Oberon link=topic=3890.msg50894#msg50894 date=1391038786] Our vet said that it was 'almost unheard of' for Labradors to have a cruciate ligament problem in their first year. He did his vet training in the UK. [/quote] I know that's true...at one point, I rather felt like surgeons were competing to do the op because they might get a paper out of it. I'm sure that was my mad imagination though. I keep telling myself this - well, I might know more about the causes after the op, anyway. And it's also true other breeds are worse overall than Labs.
Re: Hip Dysplasia I don't have anything useful to add except to say I really do feel for those who are facing these situations with their dogs. I mean, as Julie says, to do all the research into the parents, etc, and still end up with a hugely expensive and terribly difficult problem to deal with that "possibly" could be inherited.....that is just so hard.
Re: Hip Dysplasia Probably not your imagination as you consulted those at the forefront of their field and their professional inquisitiveness, ego, competitiveness, whatever was probably piqued. No bad thing though as they're the very best and they'd want the best possible outcome for their paper I have a friend who's a very good surgeon, she's incredibly competitive but she balances it well with compassion and it helps her be good at her job because she's always striving to be better I really feel for you and the others facing such difficult times and I just hope that one day after many years with your lovely dogs it will have been more than worth it and a dim, distant memory superseded by all the fun you've had together xxx
Re: Hip Dysplasia [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3890.msg50897#msg50897 date=1391039175] [quote author=Oberon link=topic=3890.msg50894#msg50894 date=1391038786] Our vet said that it was 'almost unheard of' for Labradors to have a cruciate ligament problem in their first year. He did his vet training in the UK. [/quote] I know that's true...at one point, I rather felt like surgeons were competing to do the op because they might get a paper out of it. I'm sure that was my mad imagination though. I keep telling myself this - well, I might know more about the causes after the op, anyway. And it's also true other breeds are worse overall than Labs. [/quote] I think too you have been really really unlucky Julie. Well, lucky in that you have lovely Charlie. But unlucky with the ligament issue. The vast majority of labs that I know personally don't have joint problems - indeed, I am trying to think of any that I know personally that DO have major problems. I mean, many of them end up with arthritis in old age - but so do people! Me included!! In fact, OH often tells me it's a good thing that I'm not a dog, as with my arthritic hip I would definitely have been excluded from any breeding programs. Delightful, isn't he? Poppy is the fourth lab I have had, and none of them have had major health problems. My sister has had three labs, and another sister has one; all have been long-lived and healthy. My old boys lived to 14 and 16, and yes of course in old age they had their issues - but in their youth and middle years they were incredibly healthy. It seems quite shocking how many stories of hip dysplasia and so on that we are reading about on this forum - but as was said in another thread, naturally people who are experiencing problems come here to this forum for help and support. On balance, I think that actually labs are healthy dogs, as a breed. And any breeders worth their salt are doing everything they can to ensure this remains so, and even to improve the health of the breed.
Re: Hip Dysplasia [quote author=Oberon link=topic=3890.msg50889#msg50889 date=1391034563] I think it might be worth pointing out that most Labradors go through life without a problem.[/quote] I have no wish to be an alarmist and I am also a great fan of Labradors having owned 3 in the past, nevertheless dysplasia is a problem and one has only to look at the interest shown in the subject by members of this forum to realise that owners are concerned. I have just spoken to my veterinary practice who confirm they are currently treating 12 Labradors with dysplasia, an increase on last year and I also know 3 owners on my daily walks who have dogs with arthritic joints of varying severity. My point is that the condition will only be resolved by further veterinary research, breeding controls and not by the application of substances like Green Lipped Mussel shell. Roger http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uQB7QRyF4p4
Re: Hip Dysplasia [quote author=Morwenstow link=topic=3890.msg50956#msg50956 date=1391076294] My point is that the condition will only be resolved by further veterinary research, breeding controls [/quote] Completely agree. Plus ensuring that buyers of puppies are educated about hip and elbow scores etc. so they know what to ask.
Re: Hip Dysplasia Hi Roger, Do you know by how much the number increased from last year, how many are unique or appear in both years and how many labs they have overall. I could add to this list as someone who works in data for a living but I'll hold myself back I appreciate it's of great concern and I don't mean to suggest these numbers aren't relevant, I would like to see some context if you have it though
Re: Hip Dysplasia Hi Barbara, I only got the data in the first place because I knew one of the vets and don't think they will be keen to provide further details. However, I do know the increase on last year was 2. Hope that helps. Roger
Re: Hip Dysplasia Hmmm...it would be interesting to get proper stats. There must be some, from the kennel club or RCVS as the average hip and elbow scores are known for the breed. I might have chance to have a dig around at the weekend...
Re: Hip Dysplasia [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3890.msg51004#msg51004 date=1391088932] Hmmm...it would be interesting to get proper stats. [/quote] The difficulty though will be that you cannot ascertain the number of completely healthy dogs, on whom no data is ever recorded because there has been nothing to report... and they have gone into 'pet' homes and are never hip/elbow scored as no one ever plans to breed from them? I don't know if the data will exist, because what there is has surely been collected for different purposes?? I had this discussion with my vet in terms of to spay or not to spay. His point was that whilst he saw a number of unsprayed dogs with mammary tumours, he had no idea what percentage this represented of unsprayed bitches, as he obviously didn't see the healthy ones. Clare
Re: Hip Dysplasia Very true, however you may be able to get to some reasonable points based on the number of labs he has registered. There's a whole bunch of assumptions you'd have to make such as; Most people register their dog with a vet, he has a representative sample of dogs, all dogs in his practice with Dysplasia have been diagnosed etc etc If you're looking for a general view of the relative health of labs I think you could probably work with the numbers available from a vet or group of vets.
Re: Hip Dysplasia Earlier I tried both the Kennel Club and BVA on the incidence of Dysplasia in dogs and got very little joy other than that given to potential buyers. However, I made a search of the internet and came up with these US statistics, covering the period 1974 - 2012 http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html I also found that I have a Veterinary Centre of excellence, specialising in dysplasia just down the road from me and will pay them a visit to see if they can help out with some data. Roger
Re: Hip Dysplasia Interesting. Thanks for looking that up, Roger. If I am interpreting the list correctly, it means that labrador retrievers come about halfway down the list, that the percentage of labs in the 'excellent' range has increased, while the percentage of labs with dysplasia has decreased… right?
