How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

After starting my gundog lessons I realise that I have let my two range further than they should have, although not as far as a labradoodle I met on a walk this week who was out of sight of the owners playing in the river and the owners weren't bothered at all!!


Anyway Ruby is not too bad at staying reasonably close, unless there is a crop field next to the footpath which she loves to run through, but Bella is a different kettle of fish. She wants to range much further from me with her nose to the ground, a typical spaniel!!

Does anyone have any advice on the best way to re-train them stay reasonably close but still allow them freedom to sniff, run and generally have chance to get rid of their energy ? Also once you have trained to them to stay closer do you need to keep them within same boundaries all the time, or can you allow them to go further when appropriate ?

I can whistle her in every time she goes a bit too far but will she learn to stay in closer proximity to me that way or just learn to wait til she hears whistle ?

Thanks

Chloe

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

I don't really know the answer to your question about training the dogs closer, but in general I feel uncomfortable if my dog, Lady is more than about 10/15 metres away on a recreational walk (ie just walking and not training) because I feel she's not under close control at that distance. I haven't actually consciously trained Lady to stay close, just not allowed her to range further than that on walks since she was a puppy. She pretty much doesn't move more then a few yards away now on a walk and I think that's just habit from not allowing her to wander off since she was about 6 months old (when I got her).

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Thanks David.

I think because we live in a rural area and pretty much all our walks are over fields etc I have been a bit too relaxed about where they are. I don't mean that I let run miles ahead of me! I now realise that the closer they are the more control I have over them and opportunity to recall before the chase, which is the main area I want to work on.

A Grrrrrrrrrhhhh at Bella each time she went too far and a reward when she was closer seemed to work today for about 90% of the time, but is this the right approach ?

Chloe

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

How far we let Obi go depends on where we are, but it'd normally be 5-20m or so on average, with about 100m for short periods in a safe area with no cars, no people and no other animals.

To encourage her to stay closer to you, reward all attention - that is, glances at you and physical moves in your direction. I reward every time my dog comes back to me spontaneously. If she sees 'Grrrr' as a punishment and not as nice attention (meaning it'd actually be a reward for straying) then there is no reason not to use it provided you immediately follow it with a reward for turning her attention to you.

Some people only give their dogs attention when the the dog is moving away from them (that is, they make efforts to call the dog back as it starts to move away). They ignore the dog the rest if the time. So the dog only gets attention (reward) when it's doing the wrong thing, which of course reinforces doing the wrong thing. When you are trying to build up your dog's awareness of you it is more important and effective to reward the right thing (staying close, looking at you)

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

I'm working on this too, in a similar way to you, I have no recall problems (had, anyway, we've been resting a bit) but Charlie would range too far. My ideal range is 10 - 15m. I could always recall him at 10m (or from the other side of the beach) but it gets boring to keep on doing so.

Right now I have him on a 10m line, which makes me very consistent. I reward a lot for him being close, and he responds to "ah ah" if he gets a little far - or indeed any noise from me. BUT he views ah ah or anything else, his name for example, in the same way as a recall signal and comes rushing to me in case there is a biscuit or ball on offer. So I'm still in the position of recalling him at 10m. :

So now, I'm tossing him treats if he is staying around the 5m mark....

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Thanks for your replies.

Tbh mine don't actually range any further than you let Obi.

My gundog trainer only allows his dogs to be off lead the same distance that he works them, which seems to me to be keeping them much closer than I keep mine. So it made me think that I should work on keeping mine a similar distance too.

Chloe

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Hi Chloe, we are working very hard on keeping our rescue Lab x Pointer Charlie close . We are rural also but we have found narrow tracks alongside crops where we keep Charlie trotting behind and feed him sausage for doing so, if he ventures infront for more than 10 meters we call him back and again reward, sometimes a simple "ah ah' does the trick and he drops back. We are also clicker training the retrieve to get him interesting in retrieving on a walk eventually we hope, which will keep him close and interested. I assume as Bella is a Spaniel she like retrieving? What kind of treats do you use? The smellier the better here We also only let Charlie off lead in areas we can best manage him and watch for any distractions, so his off lead is very carefully managed but you can't cover everything.

You could use a long training line to practise recall and keeping her close. We used one on Charlie for most of his life as he was an absconder and we needed to keep him safe, but it has taken a very long time to train a recall in a rescue dog, but he is doing well. You might only have to use it for a short while just to show Bella how far you want her to range. x

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

I was used to German Pointers so they could range up to 300yds, so when I had the Labs I made no conscious decision to keep them close (obviously I would not let them range in fields with animals, always on lead then), however, they seem to keep themselves close, always have an eye on me and if I change direction they are there in seconds. This would stem from when they were pups, I would take them out for a walk and suddenly disappear up another path, or suddenly change direction without giving any command, so it was up to them to keep their eye on me!

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

[quote author=rubyrubyruby link=topic=6751.msg91420#msg91420 date=1403767331]
Thanks for your replies.

Tbh mine don't actually range any further than you let Obi.

My gundog trainer only allows his dogs to be off lead the same distance that he works them, which seems to me to be keeping them much closer than I keep mine. So it made me think that I should work on keeping mine a similar distance too.

Chloe
[/quote]

I do pretty much the same as your gundog trainer. Spaniels have to work within range which is surprisingly close. In early training that range is literally within touching distance. With a puppy that is very easy to train, I walk in a zigzag pattern encouraging the pup to turn when I turn and in no time a little hunting pattern will develop where the dog hunts from side to side in front of the handler always crossing very flat in front almost brushing your shoes as it runs past. I also introduce a turn whistle at this age which will become the signal to change direction.
The thing with spaniels though is the fact that they are always in hunting mode when the lead comes off and the dog is released. So even though you might be out for a nice little walk, your spaniel is hunting, but not hunting for and with you but solely for its own entertainment with masses of opportunities for self rewarding behaviours that will clash with things you are trying to train for in your gundog classes. But even if you were not interested in gundog training, allowing a spaniel free running on walks can lead to massive problems, depending on the hunt drive of each individual dog. Pippa has written a series of articles on the subject called 'The Trouble with Springers'. One of her very best articles in my mind. I see if I can find a link to it later.
Have you started quartering training yet in your class? I would concentrate on teaching a turn whistle and use that during your walks instead of a grrr sound to keep her close. But like I said before, the traditional walk can seriously sabotage the things you are trying to teach your dog because it allows for conflicting behaviours.

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

[quote author=heidrun link=topic=6751.msg91449#msg91449 date=1403773890]
the traditional walk can seriously sabotage the things you are trying to teach your dog because it allows for conflicting behaviours.
[/quote]

I'm very interested in this.

I don't have a fast, hunting spaniel. I have a pet chocolate lab who, I think, should be content to amble along quietly. He isn't though, given half the chance (so I try never to give him the chance) he is off to see whether there is a rabbit, bird, jogger, bike ,or kid, to chase, or another dog to play with. He'll always come back, but I don't want him going in the first place.

So, I'm interested in what my walk should be and trying to get this firmly consistent as we move back to off lead walks.

I have to walk with him. I have a small garden and to get him out and about, we have to walk. We also have to train in areas where there are distractions.

I try to work on the principle that most of the time he should be doing something. So he should be walking at heel, or on a lead, or retrieving, or playing a recall game, find it, or hide a seek, tuggy or engaging with me in some way. I do allow him some time just sniffing around though (which I wonder is the same as "free running" - I think not?), but keep my eye very closely on him. If another dog approaches us, I release him to say hello, but then move on quickly.

Does that sound ok? He is a pet, he is never going shooting, but I do want to make sure I don't let his dashing off tendencies develop at all.

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Thanks again for the replies, it is interesting to hear what others do.

Julie T - an interesting post, that is similar to my situation.

I am not intending to work either of my dogs but am using the classes to improve the training of them. So I am looking for a happy medium between having more control when it is needed and still allowing them to have nice walk. I am also conscious that they go to dog sitters when we go away so whatever I approach I take can be used easily by everyone who is involved with the dogs.

Ultimately I would like to have well behaved dogs who recall when asked at all times, and chose coming back to me over chasing a small furry! I think my girls are pretty good really I just need to tighten up on a few areas of training. I am not looking for a dog that walks by my side the whole time as I like them to be able to have a good run on a walk, sniffing, etc but combined with some retrieving, and training at the same time.

Hope this makes sense?!

Chloe

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Exactly, Chloe! That's the thing. Happy not to do the traditional walk if it ruins training, but have to find a practical way to exercise my dog that strikes a good balance - given what I want is a well behaved pet that is not a disgrace in his gundog lessons and classes.

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

It makes total sense, and that is what most people want. Unfortunately it is an unrealistic expectation with SOME dogs. It all depends on each individual dog, it is just that it doesn't suit many hunting bred dogs in my opinion.

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

It is a tricky one with spaniels. What I do would be considered extreme by most pet dog owners. My spaniels are always doing one of three things

At heel
Retrieving
Quartering

So, if I go 'for a walk' rather than training (which I don't do very often) and I have a spaniel with me, that spaniel is at heel.

But my spaniels spend a lot of time training, and they are quite 'hot'.

Depending on the temperament of your spaniel, you may be able to keep her closer using the 'About Turn Walk' This is the article Heidrun was referring to

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Thanks for the article Pippa.

I suppose the main problem I have is that having given the girls the freedom to roam a bit off the footpaths I now realise that I need to retrain them to stay closer. Understandably, I think they are a bit confused as to why suddenly they are being encouraged to stay closer all the time!

They aren't dogs who don't want to be with me. They don't run up to other dogs or people. But pretty much all our footpaths are next to crop fields, onions, wheat, potato, beet, etc and the girls sometimes stray off the path into the field as it is so much more fun running through these than staying on the path!! I need to work on keeping them closer and to the footpath.

Chloe

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Right from the start we've kept Holly close. When she was young we trained this by making random changes in direction. She'd see we were going away and run to catch up, after which she got a treat.

As she got older we started taking it in turns to hide and call her during walks. When she finds the missing person she gets a treat. We play the hiding game on just about every walk as she enjoys it and it reinforces her desire to stay close. She regularly turns to check that we're still in sight, and runs back to look for anyone who goes missing. As a result she seldom goes more than 20-30 yards away.

Playing this game has made us realise that she can count to three. If three people go out and one hides she will notice straight away. If four people go out and one hides she needs to be told. Ergo, she can only count to three!

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Are we in danger of controlling our dogs so much that they never have the opportunity to develope thier intelligence, we tell them, do this, do that.

My Labs are not so controlled by me, they have learnt self control and what the world is about.

Edited to add that this does no apply to spaniels as they need to hunt close and within gun range. However, if I had a spaniel I would give it more freedom on walks and train it separately to work, I think they do know the difference.

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Puzzle has her own set distance of around 10-15 on normal walks, she is uncomfortable going out of this range. We did not teach her this, it was just what she did.

When working, either doing SAR work or retrieving, she can go much further as she has an incentive to go further away to either get a dummy of find a body.

We try to encourage her as much as possible to get her to go further away, especially as she needs to go 30m away for SAR work doing hasty's. It is all about building her confidence up and making it a good thing when we tell her to do. If she goes to far looking for something, like she overshot fetching a ball or dummy then we either call her back and stop her when she is in the right area or call her back and re-send her.

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

Stacia - I don't disagree with some of your points.

My lab is much more steady than the spaniel when we are out for a walk and does tend to stay closer, in fact I rarely have to call her back as she seems to reach an invisible line and just turns around. However she does go further in some places and I wish she would apply her normal behaviour here rather than want to leap and bound through the beet field!!

I don't want my walks to be all about training, I like being able to give them some freedom too. I guess it is about getting the balance right!

Chloe

 

Re: How far do you let your dog range off lead ?

[quote author=Stacia link=topic=6751.msg91735#msg91735 date=1403861846]
Are we in danger of controlling our dogs so much that they never have the opportunity to develope thier intelligence, we tell them, do this, do that.

My Labs are not so controlled by me, they have learnt self control and what the world is about.

Edited to add that this does no apply to spaniels as they need to hunt close and within gun range. However, if I had a spaniel I would give it more freedom on walks and train it separately to work, I think they do know the difference.
[/quote]

Well, I think this is all very interesting. Might be very different between young dogs and older dogs though? I can't see that allowing my young lab to chase rabbits, birds, and seagulls is going to do me any favours. And keeping him close so I can make sure I don't let him, seems sensible.

But I think in general Stacia's point is very well made. Charlie chased a butterfly last night and I found myself thinking "is that appropriate?". Followed rapidly by the thought "give the dog a break, it's fine for goodness sake, he's still a pup".